7 ms·

As a longtime Android fanboy who was actually waiting for the upcoming Pixels, I am tempted to switch over. I'm losing faith in Google's good faith, and want to

As a longtime Android fanboy who was actually waiting for the upcoming Pixels, I am tempted to switch over. I'm losing faith in Google's good faith, and want to reward / support companies that take my privacy at least semi-seriously.

FussyZeus 9y ago
With no snark whatsoever, though this question I realize implies it but I'll try my best to not: What good will? Google wrote the book on directed advertising. I'm genuinely interested why this attitude pervades Google's user base, that the Internet giant with 80% of the smartphone market is some kind of 'scrappy underdog' compared to Apple.
- dasil003 9y ago
  Android was an underdog for years as iPhones rewrote the industry from top to bottom, killing Blackberry, Nokia, Windows Phone. It took years of intense focus to bring Android to parity, and lucky for Google, there are a few areas where Apple is weak... Apple is underdog in services. To this day Apple Maps is a pale shadow of Google Maps. They're getting better to be sure, but still an underdog.
  - rkowalick 9y ago
    I imagine the only reason Apple Maps is worse than Google Maps is because the community around Google Maps has been updating it consistently for over a decade. Apple maps transit experience is, in my opinion, much more carefully though out than Google's, so I know they can do something with the right information.
    - FussyZeus 9y ago
      Apple Maps had a rough start, but people forget Google Maps wasn't always perfect either. It would be nice if Apple users had the ability to submit corrections to Apple somehow.
      - eridius 9y ago
        You can. Not while turn-by-turn is active (presumably because Apple doesn't want to distract drivers), but outside of that, hit the (i) button and "Report an Issue" is an option. What's neat about this is if you report a map error and they correct it, you actually get a push notification telling you that it's been fixed.
        FussyZeus 9y ago
        No kidding? I'll have to try this, thanks.
- manquer 9y ago
  In terms of higher value userbase who still are willing to pay for apps and not easily able to pirate an app, Apple is still way ahead, this makes them far more desirable for app creators than Android does
- mseebach 9y ago
  I can only answer for myself: I have a decent amount of faith in Googles ability to effectively advertise to me in a non-obtrusive manner, while treating my data responsibly. Taking it one level of abstraction up, I don't see a future where using your data for efficient targeting of advertising isn't happening (and I don't consider that an obviously bad thing), and I consider Google a net positive force in shaping a responsible way of doing that.
  - mercer 9y ago
    While I'm nowhere near your position, I've been entertaining similar notions. Could you elaborate a bit on your views on this?
    - mseebach 9y ago
      Not sure what you are after, exactly? They have the means and the motive to do this well, and as far as I can tell, they have been successful at it; I don't think they have suffered any significant breach of privacy.
- freedomben 9y ago
  There is a lot of value in open sourcing the product. Yes there are proprietary pieces of Android, but overall it's mostly open. Contrast with Apple who closes everything and makes it difficult for a user to get at their own hardware. RMS is pretty out there on a lot of things, but he's right about the need for open products.
blubb-fish 9y ago
Same here - but I would like more info on the subject to allow for a qualified decision. iPhones are very expensive. Isn't basically all your data, everything you type being sent to Apple?
- new299 9y ago
  I can find no reference to this, and I've not heard anything about this happening in the past. Issues with iOS include: * iCloud not encrypting data securely serverside (i.e. they can potentially get at the data). You can avoid this by not using iCloud. * They have Ads in app, and now in the Appstore directly. Potentially this changes the dynamic, between user/advertiser in a negative way. There are probably other issues... but I'm not currently aware of them. Overall it still seems like the best option from a privacy perspective.
  - rodorgas 9y ago
    I don't think first item is true especially if you have 2-step verification enabled. They explicit say that if you lose your auth token, they can't do nothing. When I didn't used 2-step, I forgot my password, called them and they reset it for me (I had to confirm my identity providing them a code sent to my mac).
    - new299 9y ago
      I think "can't" is "wont" in this case. Apple law enforcement guidelines state: "All iCloud content data stored by Apple is encrypted at the location of the server. When third-party vendors are used to store data, Apple never gives them the keys. Apple retains the encryption keys in its U.S. data centers." and "iCloud content may include email, stored photos, documents, contacts, calendars, bookmarks, Safari browsing history and iOS device backups. iOS device backups may include photos and videos in the Camera Roll, device settings, app data, iMessage, SMS, and MMS messages and voicemail. All iCloud content data stored by Apple is encrypted at the location of the server. When third-party vendors are used to store data, Apple never gives them the keys. Apple retains the encryption keys in its U.S. data centres. iCloud content, as it exists in the subscriber’s account, may be provided in response to a search warrant issued upon a showing of probable cause." So in short, Apple retains encryption keys for much of the data (including iOS backups), and will provide decrypted data to US law enforcement on request. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelines-us.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelin...

FussyZeus 9y ago

With no snark whatsoever, though this question I realize implies it but I'll try my best to not: What good will? Google wrote the book on directed advertising. I'm genuinely interested why this attitude pervades Google's user base, that the Internet giant with 80% of the smartphone market is some kind of 'scrappy underdog' compared to Apple.

dasil003 9y ago
Android was an underdog for years as iPhones rewrote the industry from top to bottom, killing Blackberry, Nokia, Windows Phone. It took years of intense focus to bring Android to parity, and lucky for Google, there are a few areas where Apple is weak... Apple is underdog in services. To this day Apple Maps is a pale shadow of Google Maps. They're getting better to be sure, but still an underdog.
- rkowalick 9y ago
  I imagine the only reason Apple Maps is worse than Google Maps is because the community around Google Maps has been updating it consistently for over a decade. Apple maps transit experience is, in my opinion, much more carefully though out than Google's, so I know they can do something with the right information.
  - FussyZeus 9y ago
    Apple Maps had a rough start, but people forget Google Maps wasn't always perfect either. It would be nice if Apple users had the ability to submit corrections to Apple somehow.
    - eridius 9y ago
      You can. Not while turn-by-turn is active (presumably because Apple doesn't want to distract drivers), but outside of that, hit the (i) button and "Report an Issue" is an option. What's neat about this is if you report a map error and they correct it, you actually get a push notification telling you that it's been fixed.
      - FussyZeus 9y ago
        No kidding? I'll have to try this, thanks.
manquer 9y ago
In terms of higher value userbase who still are willing to pay for apps and not easily able to pirate an app, Apple is still way ahead, this makes them far more desirable for app creators than Android does
mseebach 9y ago
I can only answer for myself: I have a decent amount of faith in Googles ability to effectively advertise to me in a non-obtrusive manner, while treating my data responsibly. Taking it one level of abstraction up, I don't see a future where using your data for efficient targeting of advertising isn't happening (and I don't consider that an obviously bad thing), and I consider Google a net positive force in shaping a responsible way of doing that.
- mercer 9y ago
  While I'm nowhere near your position, I've been entertaining similar notions. Could you elaborate a bit on your views on this?
  - mseebach 9y ago
    Not sure what you are after, exactly? They have the means and the motive to do this well, and as far as I can tell, they have been successful at it; I don't think they have suffered any significant breach of privacy.
freedomben 9y ago
There is a lot of value in open sourcing the product. Yes there are proprietary pieces of Android, but overall it's mostly open. Contrast with Apple who closes everything and makes it difficult for a user to get at their own hardware. RMS is pretty out there on a lot of things, but he's right about the need for open products.

blubb-fish 9y ago

Same here - but I would like more info on the subject to allow for a qualified decision. iPhones are very expensive. Isn't basically all your data, everything you type being sent to Apple?

new299 9y ago
I can find no reference to this, and I've not heard anything about this happening in the past. Issues with iOS include: * iCloud not encrypting data securely serverside (i.e. they can potentially get at the data). You can avoid this by not using iCloud. * They have Ads in app, and now in the Appstore directly. Potentially this changes the dynamic, between user/advertiser in a negative way. There are probably other issues... but I'm not currently aware of them. Overall it still seems like the best option from a privacy perspective.
- rodorgas 9y ago
  I don't think first item is true especially if you have 2-step verification enabled. They explicit say that if you lose your auth token, they can't do nothing. When I didn't used 2-step, I forgot my password, called them and they reset it for me (I had to confirm my identity providing them a code sent to my mac).
  - new299 9y ago
    I think "can't" is "wont" in this case. Apple law enforcement guidelines state: "All iCloud content data stored by Apple is encrypted at the location of the server. When third-party vendors are used to store data, Apple never gives them the keys. Apple retains the encryption keys in its U.S. data centers." and "iCloud content may include email, stored photos, documents, contacts, calendars, bookmarks, Safari browsing history and iOS device backups. iOS device backups may include photos and videos in the Camera Roll, device settings, app data, iMessage, SMS, and MMS messages and voicemail. All iCloud content data stored by Apple is encrypted at the location of the server. When third-party vendors are used to store data, Apple never gives them the keys. Apple retains the encryption keys in its U.S. data centres. iCloud content, as it exists in the subscriber’s account, may be provided in response to a search warrant issued upon a showing of probable cause." So in short, Apple retains encryption keys for much of the data (including iOS backups), and will provide decrypted data to US law enforcement on request. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelines-us.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelin...