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> Evidently not? I'd really be curious how you come to that conclusion Uhm... what sort of a response are you expecting that could convince you here? > when t

> Evidently not? I'd really be curious how you come to that conclusion Uhm... what sort of a response are you expecting that could convince you here? > when they apparently don't have the first clue as to how to recognize evil, nor do they seem to care? How are you so certain that I'm recognizing the evil correctly in the first place? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to first question that before questioning my assessment of my friends' character? > Are you sure that that's not just the image they promote of themselves, rather than an actual assessment of their behaviour? How high of a bar is "sure" for you? I'm not even "sure" I understand all of my own parents' motivations in life well, let alone my friends'. The way you phrase your question I don't get the impression I could meet that bar realistically about anyone. I can say I'm "sure" enough that I'm considering the possibility of them getting brainwashed as significantly more likely than them having poor moral character. Not sure what other metric I can use really.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
> Uhm... what sort of a response are you expecting that could convince you here? Well, some sort of reasoning? Like, what do you observe about these friends that leads you to that conclusion? > How are you so certain that I'm recognizing the evil correctly in the first place? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to first question that before questioning my assessment of my friends' character? I'm not sure why there should be a priority between those question?! It's certainly a valid question, but I just accepted your premise in that regard for the sake of the discussion. After all, I am not trying to come to a conclusion about your friends (whom I don't know anyway), but rather I am trying to understand how you reconcile your observation that they are doing something that you would consider evil with the conclusion that they are of "better moral character than [your]self". To me it seems like that would be a contradiction in terms. I guess I could also just ask what you mean by "good moral character", that this does not cause a contradiction? > How high of a bar is "sure" for you? I'm not even "sure" I understand all of my own parents' motivations in life well, let alone my friends'. The way you phrase your question I don't get the impression I could meet that bar realistically about anyone. I guess I meant something along the lines of "reasonably sure". But also, this wasn't so much a question about your friends, but a question about you: How do you come to the conclusion that they are of "better moral character"? What about those friends makes you think that? And have you considered whether your conclusion isn't more based on what they claim to be, rather than on what you have actually observed them to be? > I can say I'm "sure" enough that I'm considering the possibility of them getting brainwashed as significantly more likely than them having poor moral character. I guess that goes back to the question of what your definition of "moral character" is, but wouldn't brainwashing impair moral character?

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago

> Uhm... what sort of a response are you expecting that could convince you here? Well, some sort of reasoning? Like, what do you observe about these friends that leads you to that conclusion? > How are you so certain that I'm recognizing the evil correctly in the first place? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to first question that before questioning my assessment of my friends' character? I'm not sure why there should be a priority between those question?! It's certainly a valid question, but I just accepted your premise in that regard for the sake of the discussion. After all, I am not trying to come to a conclusion about your friends (whom I don't know anyway), but rather I am trying to understand how you reconcile your observation that they are doing something that you would consider evil with the conclusion that they are of "better moral character than [your]self". To me it seems like that would be a contradiction in terms. I guess I could also just ask what you mean by "good moral character", that this does not cause a contradiction? > How high of a bar is "sure" for you? I'm not even "sure" I understand all of my own parents' motivations in life well, let alone my friends'. The way you phrase your question I don't get the impression I could meet that bar realistically about anyone. I guess I meant something along the lines of "reasonably sure". But also, this wasn't so much a question about your friends, but a question about you: How do you come to the conclusion that they are of "better moral character"? What about those friends makes you think that? And have you considered whether your conclusion isn't more based on what they claim to be, rather than on what you have actually observed them to be? > I can say I'm "sure" enough that I'm considering the possibility of them getting brainwashed as significantly more likely than them having poor moral character. I guess that goes back to the question of what your definition of "moral character" is, but wouldn't brainwashing impair moral character?