3 ms·

"how else is their ideal society attainable without the forced removal of non-white people?" Um, how about just reducing immigration a lot and giving it time?

"how else is their ideal society attainable without the forced removal of non-white people?" Um, how about just reducing immigration a lot and giving it time? It's not that complicated. I think you're just obscuring the obvious non-Hitler solutions because you want easy moral superiority. Easy to slag someone when you can pretend they just want to commit genocide. Much harder when you take their views charitably. But, this is common, which is why I generally agree with Thiel here: Nobody had ever tried to convince me otherwise, only accused me of wanting things I don't want.

pryce 9y ago
> Um, how about just reducing immigration a lot and giving it time? It's not that complicated. You have still completely glossed over what specifically you expect ought to to happen to the non-white people who already reside in whichever country you're talking about, and their descendents, and anyone they interbreed with, even presupposing some weird test for who does or does not count as white. I don't think it's inappropriate for readers to be quite alarmed about all of that. This is also completely ignoring crucial context about where these white people you refer to came from or which lands they should be entitled to, and begs the question of why white people should be the ones who get to turn their nation of birth into an ethnostate for them rather than the ones being excluded. Of all the things one might say about Ethnostates, the blithe claim that "it's not that complicated" is profoundly scary.
3131s 9y ago
> Um, how about just reducing immigration a lot and giving it time? It's not that complicated. But not reducing immigration from most of Europe, right? And in turn should white Americans not be allowed to live abroad in most of the rest of the world? I should have refrained from saying "imbeciles", because that's not conducive to discussion and obviously there are some smart people like Thiel and yourself who end up advocating these ideas. It's hard to even begin a discussion about racial nationalism though, because I think it's pretty clear that the idea of race itself is scientifically shaky. I'd like to convince you though. But first, what exactly is it that you're advocating? And some questions I have... 1) Can you clarify your stance on immigration? 2) Can you give me a coherent definition of race? 3) What entitles one particular race (I'm assuming "white" people in this case) to predominate in America? 4) What if anything should happen to non-white people that are currently legal US citizens? 5) What should happen to Americans like myself who are married to non-white, non-US-citizens? Won't we end up in limbo with no place to go? I can assure you that I am not just looking for moral superiority -- I feel that my very wellbeing is threatened by the ideas that I hear espoused by racial nationalists. 6) Would you break apart the United States to give, for example, a black nationalist movement their own country? Seems only fair considering whites forcibly brought them to this country. And Native Americans? If so, what are the logistics of this and who gets what? 7) Do you feel that there is something fundamental connecting culture and "race"? What specific elements of the cultures of other races do you see as harmful? Are these differences fundamentally irreconcilable and why? Surely there are other white people (myself probably) who hold opinions that are equally divergent, so why not separate on that basis rather than purely on race? Again, I find myself halting while even typing out these questions because I have to keep referring back to this ill-defined idea of race. But, I guess the discussion has to start somewhere unless we plan on wiping each other out.

pryce 9y ago

> Um, how about just reducing immigration a lot and giving it time? It's not that complicated. You have still completely glossed over what specifically you expect ought to to happen to the non-white people who already reside in whichever country you're talking about, and their descendents, and anyone they interbreed with, even presupposing some weird test for who does or does not count as white. I don't think it's inappropriate for readers to be quite alarmed about all of that. This is also completely ignoring crucial context about where these white people you refer to came from or which lands they should be entitled to, and begs the question of why white people should be the ones who get to turn their nation of birth into an ethnostate for them rather than the ones being excluded. Of all the things one might say about Ethnostates, the blithe claim that "it's not that complicated" is profoundly scary.

3131s 9y ago

> Um, how about just reducing immigration a lot and giving it time? It's not that complicated. But not reducing immigration from most of Europe, right? And in turn should white Americans not be allowed to live abroad in most of the rest of the world? I should have refrained from saying "imbeciles", because that's not conducive to discussion and obviously there are some smart people like Thiel and yourself who end up advocating these ideas. It's hard to even begin a discussion about racial nationalism though, because I think it's pretty clear that the idea of race itself is scientifically shaky. I'd like to convince you though. But first, what exactly is it that you're advocating? And some questions I have... 1) Can you clarify your stance on immigration? 2) Can you give me a coherent definition of race? 3) What entitles one particular race (I'm assuming "white" people in this case) to predominate in America? 4) What if anything should happen to non-white people that are currently legal US citizens? 5) What should happen to Americans like myself who are married to non-white, non-US-citizens? Won't we end up in limbo with no place to go? I can assure you that I am not just looking for moral superiority -- I feel that my very wellbeing is threatened by the ideas that I hear espoused by racial nationalists. 6) Would you break apart the United States to give, for example, a black nationalist movement their own country? Seems only fair considering whites forcibly brought them to this country. And Native Americans? If so, what are the logistics of this and who gets what? 7) Do you feel that there is something fundamental connecting culture and "race"? What specific elements of the cultures of other races do you see as harmful? Are these differences fundamentally irreconcilable and why? Surely there are other white people (myself probably) who hold opinions that are equally divergent, so why not separate on that basis rather than purely on race? Again, I find myself halting while even typing out these questions because I have to keep referring back to this ill-defined idea of race. But, I guess the discussion has to start somewhere unless we plan on wiping each other out.