2 ms·

By making murder illegal and punishable in a court of law. The goal is equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. Bad things are still going to happen, abuses will

by KGIII 9y ago

By making murder illegal and punishable in a court of law. The goal is equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. Bad things are still going to happen, abuses will always happen. The goal is to minimize the risks and to ensure a punitive response to unlawful behavior. The goal being to maximize your ability to enjoy your freedoms does not mean you'll be able to maximize them as much as someone else with greater assets. An example would be public parks. A wealthy person may be able to put a giant boat on the lake, but you may only be able to afford to swim in the lake. You should still be allowed to swim in the lake and enjoy the park. You, the individual, are still responsible for you. Equal opportunity doesn't ensure equal outcome. So, we must still protect the commons and have a strong social safety net. Unlike most libertarians, given the power to do so, I'd tax the hell out of the wealthy. For the record, I'm considered wealthy. I pay a lot of taxes, but could easily pay more without even really reducing my ability to enjoy my freedoms. It is my responsibility to help pay for your social safety net. Not only that, it is financially sound for me to do so. I want you to be healthy, you're more productive. I want you to be educated, you're more innovative. I want you to have the ability to try to start a business, so I can sell your business products and services. I want you happy, because happy people are more productive. I want you to not have to worry about health care expenses, because keeping you healthy is less expensive than fixing you up after you become unhealthy. It's just good sense, I think. Killing you is still illegal and no system is going to recent that. Laws aren't really meant to stop people, they are meant to indicate those actions will be punished.

dagw 9y ago
You should still be allowed to swim in the lake and enjoy the park. That sounds naive to me. Without regulation on boat traffic what is to stop it becoming unfeasible to swim in the lake due to all the giant boats and all their docks clogging the lake. Being allowed to do something doesn't matter much if actually doing so in practice is impossible or highly impractical.
- KGIII 9y ago
  Where did you get the idea of no regulations? Only a few people want a world without laws, I'd submit that those people aren't very bright. Additionally, I'm not sure how you would read my posts and think I was in favor of no regulations? Libertarian != anarchist. Maybe you missed the part about protecting the commons? Maybe you missed my comments explaining what libertarian means? I dunno... If you're really curious, there is a pretty good Wikipedia article on the subject. Again, it is a broad spectrum that encompasses quite a lot of variations.
  - dagw 9y ago
    You're views (which I largely agree with) with ideas like strict regulations, higher taxation and solid safety nets sound more like European Liberal views rather than anything most people would recognize as libertarian. But I do understand that most political labels are pretty meaningless in isolation.
    - KGIII 9y ago
      They were the most common of libertarian values until recently. Libertarians used to be the kooky left but are now the crazy right, at least as far as perception goes. The thing is, we weren't ever a large group. When what I call ashamed republicans took over the party, it moved perception strongly to the right. We can't really kick them out of the party, that would kinda be antithetical to our stated beliefs. So, here we are. I can understand why people would be confused when I say I'm a libertarian. I can understand why they'd immediately think I'm a Randian. So, I try to explain it, but it's rather verbose and not exactly easy to sum up.
      - sjwright 9y ago
        Libertarianism ought to be, in my view, maximum freedom with minimum externalities. You should be able to justify drug legalisation and strict pollution regulations within this model.
      - olalonde 9y ago
        > I can understand why people would be confused when I say I'm a libertarian Indeed. Do you think it is possible that you are mislabeling yourself? From this thread, I'd say most people would label you a social democrat (and no, not because you reject Ayn Rand).

by KGIII 9y ago

dagw 9y ago

You should still be allowed to swim in the lake and enjoy the park. That sounds naive to me. Without regulation on boat traffic what is to stop it becoming unfeasible to swim in the lake due to all the giant boats and all their docks clogging the lake. Being allowed to do something doesn't matter much if actually doing so in practice is impossible or highly impractical.

KGIII 9y ago
Where did you get the idea of no regulations? Only a few people want a world without laws, I'd submit that those people aren't very bright. Additionally, I'm not sure how you would read my posts and think I was in favor of no regulations? Libertarian != anarchist. Maybe you missed the part about protecting the commons? Maybe you missed my comments explaining what libertarian means? I dunno... If you're really curious, there is a pretty good Wikipedia article on the subject. Again, it is a broad spectrum that encompasses quite a lot of variations.
- dagw 9y ago
  You're views (which I largely agree with) with ideas like strict regulations, higher taxation and solid safety nets sound more like European Liberal views rather than anything most people would recognize as libertarian. But I do understand that most political labels are pretty meaningless in isolation.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    They were the most common of libertarian values until recently. Libertarians used to be the kooky left but are now the crazy right, at least as far as perception goes. The thing is, we weren't ever a large group. When what I call ashamed republicans took over the party, it moved perception strongly to the right. We can't really kick them out of the party, that would kinda be antithetical to our stated beliefs. So, here we are. I can understand why people would be confused when I say I'm a libertarian. I can understand why they'd immediately think I'm a Randian. So, I try to explain it, but it's rather verbose and not exactly easy to sum up.
    - sjwright 9y ago
      Libertarianism ought to be, in my view, maximum freedom with minimum externalities. You should be able to justify drug legalisation and strict pollution regulations within this model.
    - olalonde 9y ago
      > I can understand why people would be confused when I say I'm a libertarian Indeed. Do you think it is possible that you are mislabeling yourself? From this thread, I'd say most people would label you a social democrat (and no, not because you reject Ayn Rand).