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No, it's emphatically not a problem with the ecosystem. Android 2.2 phones are being designed as we speak, and Android 2.1 works perfectly fine for people in t

by Niten 16y ago

No, it's emphatically not a problem with the ecosystem. Android 2.2 phones are being designed as we speak, and Android 2.1 works perfectly fine for people in the meantime -- it's not like Google had to play catchup with Android 2.2 the way Apple did with iOS 4. Like you said, typical users such as your parents have no idea what software their phone is running; they just want it to work. Android 2.1 works perfectly well, and the fact that 2.2 has been announced but is not yet commercially available is no hindrance to people who don't care for such matters. The only people who really seem to be getting up in arms about Android 2.2 not being available right now are the Apple fanatics.

ericd 16y ago
It's a problem in that the old phones should continue to be supported and get the new OS's in a timely fashion. They shouldn't need to worry about which OS is on there, but I think the OS should continue to get better over the life of the phone regardless. I'm not saying it needs to be out there right now, it's more of a question of whether a random model x will ever get it. Some probably won't, even if they can support it, and I would say that's a problem.
- kelnos 16y ago
  Why would you expect that to be the case? Can you install Windows 7 on your 2000-era PC? Can you even install it on your 2005-era PC and expect it to perform well? Some phones will be updated, and some will not. Some won't get the update because: 1. The hardware is too old/slow/underpowered/too little RAM for the new OS 2. The manufacturer/carrier doesn't give a damn and doesn't feel like pouring money into an old phone when doing so doesn't give them any new revenue. Either way, your complaint isn't with Android or Google.
  - naturalized 16y ago
    In order the remedy this problem, the unlocked multi-carrier phones should be just as available as ISP-neutral PCs. This is clearly not the case, a typical user does not know where or how to buy an unlocked Droid X (and even if they bought it on eBay, it only works on Verizon anyway). So your comparison is not adequate.
    - kelnos 16y ago
      Sure, the laptop comparison falls down in some ways, but I'd argue that your point argues in favor of mine. A phone is much more locked down and difficult to upgrade. Most customers won't upgrade unless it comes in a nice automatic OTA package from the carrier or manufacturer. With PCs you have the option to relatively easily purchase or download a major new OS version and install it yourself. PCs are commodity hardware; phones are not (yet). The fact that unlocked multi-carrier phones aren't readily available is a problem with how the carriers and wireless service works, and has nothing to do with Android, or iOS, for that matter.
  - ericd 16y ago
    Some phones are too slow, but I think the vast majority of android phones in the wild (by number sold) fall under the umbrella of #2 right now, and that's the much bigger issue. It's hard for a consumer to tell whether the phone they're picking up will be supported a year after the fact. That is a problem with the structure of the Android ecosystem, which by extension is a complaint with Android itself.
    - kelnos 16y ago
      I don't agree. How is Google going to require that all manufacturers of Android phones continue to support each model with sometimes-major OS upgrades for X number of years? Why would they even want to? Apple has, what... 8 devices (4 generations of iPhone, 3 of iPod Touch, and the iPad) out? Hell, at least that many new Android phones have or will come out this year alone! And even Apple can't keep all their devices up-to-date: people with the iPhone 3G are reporting slowness and instability with iOS 4. I imagine the 1st-gen iPod Touch (and maybe even 2nd-gen) would have trouble as well. And last I read, iOS 4 isn't available yet for the iPad. So Apple's track record is (on the generous side) that 50% of their potentially-capable devices work with iOS 4. There's an easy way to solve the "what version of Android does this phone I'm considering buying have on it?" problem -- ask a salesperson. If they don't know, ask the manufacturer. Or just google for it. I'm sure someone else has the phone and has noted it somewhere, or some reviewer has gotten a review unit and has noted the version. And how do you know if it's going to get upgrades? You go by the manufacturer's past record with such things. The interwebs can tell you all this, and more.
  - megablast 16y ago
    I would be pretty annoyed if I couldn't install W7 on the laptop I bought today. Well, actually I wouldn't, I hate Windows 7, but you get my point. We are not dealing with old hardware, we are dealing with problematic manufacturers and carriers. This is the same problem we had in the past, but it is more of an issue now. This is what Apple freed us from, no matter what carrier it is on in the world, I can upgrade my phone. Android do a lot of things right, this is not one of them.
    - kelnos 16y ago
      > I would be pretty annoyed if I couldn't install W7 on the laptop I bought today. Huh? We're not talking about the laptop (phone) you bought today. We're talking about the one you bought a year (or more) ago. And the laptop comparison is limited: new laptops generally have more than enough power to run the current OS and apps. Embedded devices usually have just enough and not much more. People don't like to buy $1000 phones, so we get a single-core 1GHz Snapdragon with 512MB of RAM instead of a dual-core 1GHz Tegra2 with 1GB of RAM. > This is the same problem we had in the past, but it is more of an issue now. This is what Apple freed us from, no matter what carrier it is on in the world, I can upgrade my phone. Well, unless you have an iPhone 3G -- reports are that iOS4 is unstable and slow as hell. And I have a Nexus One, and I can use it on whatever carrier I like, and upgrade it to whatever software I like. Granted, custom Android mods aren't for your average consumer, but I expect (ok, wishfully hope) that to change in the next few years.
- confuzatron 16y ago
  I agree up to a point, but on the other hand we've seen a situation where the latest OS release for a particular range of phones does not run well on the oldest model of that phone. Someone made a humorous video recently illustrating the problem. Some support cutoff point for old models makes sense.
- zmmmmm 16y ago
  Consumers, rightly or wrongly have been trained to have absolutely zero expectation that their phone OS will be upgradeable. Apple is the one company (outside of Android) doing that at all and I think most consumers are quite surprised when iTunes starts telling them they can upgrade. I don't think this is an issue at all, at least not yet. It will become so as the app market matures and large numbers of consumers find they can't run high profile apps that require newer OS version.
  - ericd 16y ago
    Yeah, that's a decent point. I'm probably tainted by my exposure to the iPhone - it seems reasonable that most people probably don't even know about OS upgradeability. Good point about the app market, that will likely be one of the main areas where it matters. I know my friends who got a G1 felt stung by not being able to upgrade their OS to include new features within a year or so of buying it, though.

by Niten 16y ago

ericd 16y ago

It's a problem in that the old phones should continue to be supported and get the new OS's in a timely fashion. They shouldn't need to worry about which OS is on there, but I think the OS should continue to get better over the life of the phone regardless. I'm not saying it needs to be out there right now, it's more of a question of whether a random model x will ever get it. Some probably won't, even if they can support it, and I would say that's a problem.

kelnos 16y ago
Why would you expect that to be the case? Can you install Windows 7 on your 2000-era PC? Can you even install it on your 2005-era PC and expect it to perform well? Some phones will be updated, and some will not. Some won't get the update because: 1. The hardware is too old/slow/underpowered/too little RAM for the new OS 2. The manufacturer/carrier doesn't give a damn and doesn't feel like pouring money into an old phone when doing so doesn't give them any new revenue. Either way, your complaint isn't with Android or Google.
- naturalized 16y ago
  In order the remedy this problem, the unlocked multi-carrier phones should be just as available as ISP-neutral PCs. This is clearly not the case, a typical user does not know where or how to buy an unlocked Droid X (and even if they bought it on eBay, it only works on Verizon anyway). So your comparison is not adequate.
  - kelnos 16y ago
    Sure, the laptop comparison falls down in some ways, but I'd argue that your point argues in favor of mine. A phone is much more locked down and difficult to upgrade. Most customers won't upgrade unless it comes in a nice automatic OTA package from the carrier or manufacturer. With PCs you have the option to relatively easily purchase or download a major new OS version and install it yourself. PCs are commodity hardware; phones are not (yet). The fact that unlocked multi-carrier phones aren't readily available is a problem with how the carriers and wireless service works, and has nothing to do with Android, or iOS, for that matter.
- ericd 16y ago
  Some phones are too slow, but I think the vast majority of android phones in the wild (by number sold) fall under the umbrella of #2 right now, and that's the much bigger issue. It's hard for a consumer to tell whether the phone they're picking up will be supported a year after the fact. That is a problem with the structure of the Android ecosystem, which by extension is a complaint with Android itself.
  - kelnos 16y ago
    I don't agree. How is Google going to require that all manufacturers of Android phones continue to support each model with sometimes-major OS upgrades for X number of years? Why would they even want to? Apple has, what... 8 devices (4 generations of iPhone, 3 of iPod Touch, and the iPad) out? Hell, at least that many new Android phones have or will come out this year alone! And even Apple can't keep all their devices up-to-date: people with the iPhone 3G are reporting slowness and instability with iOS 4. I imagine the 1st-gen iPod Touch (and maybe even 2nd-gen) would have trouble as well. And last I read, iOS 4 isn't available yet for the iPad. So Apple's track record is (on the generous side) that 50% of their potentially-capable devices work with iOS 4. There's an easy way to solve the "what version of Android does this phone I'm considering buying have on it?" problem -- ask a salesperson. If they don't know, ask the manufacturer. Or just google for it. I'm sure someone else has the phone and has noted it somewhere, or some reviewer has gotten a review unit and has noted the version. And how do you know if it's going to get upgrades? You go by the manufacturer's past record with such things. The interwebs can tell you all this, and more.
- megablast 16y ago
  I would be pretty annoyed if I couldn't install W7 on the laptop I bought today. Well, actually I wouldn't, I hate Windows 7, but you get my point. We are not dealing with old hardware, we are dealing with problematic manufacturers and carriers. This is the same problem we had in the past, but it is more of an issue now. This is what Apple freed us from, no matter what carrier it is on in the world, I can upgrade my phone. Android do a lot of things right, this is not one of them.
  - kelnos 16y ago
    > I would be pretty annoyed if I couldn't install W7 on the laptop I bought today. Huh? We're not talking about the laptop (phone) you bought today. We're talking about the one you bought a year (or more) ago. And the laptop comparison is limited: new laptops generally have more than enough power to run the current OS and apps. Embedded devices usually have just enough and not much more. People don't like to buy $1000 phones, so we get a single-core 1GHz Snapdragon with 512MB of RAM instead of a dual-core 1GHz Tegra2 with 1GB of RAM. > This is the same problem we had in the past, but it is more of an issue now. This is what Apple freed us from, no matter what carrier it is on in the world, I can upgrade my phone. Well, unless you have an iPhone 3G -- reports are that iOS4 is unstable and slow as hell. And I have a Nexus One, and I can use it on whatever carrier I like, and upgrade it to whatever software I like. Granted, custom Android mods aren't for your average consumer, but I expect (ok, wishfully hope) that to change in the next few years.
confuzatron 16y ago
I agree up to a point, but on the other hand we've seen a situation where the latest OS release for a particular range of phones does not run well on the oldest model of that phone. Someone made a humorous video recently illustrating the problem. Some support cutoff point for old models makes sense.
zmmmmm 16y ago
Consumers, rightly or wrongly have been trained to have absolutely zero expectation that their phone OS will be upgradeable. Apple is the one company (outside of Android) doing that at all and I think most consumers are quite surprised when iTunes starts telling them they can upgrade. I don't think this is an issue at all, at least not yet. It will become so as the app market matures and large numbers of consumers find they can't run high profile apps that require newer OS version.
- ericd 16y ago
  Yeah, that's a decent point. I'm probably tainted by my exposure to the iPhone - it seems reasonable that most people probably don't even know about OS upgradeability. Good point about the app market, that will likely be one of the main areas where it matters. I know my friends who got a G1 felt stung by not being able to upgrade their OS to include new features within a year or so of buying it, though.