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The "non-exclusive" bit is actually quite important here. This means anyone can get IP from HTC, and I am not sure if that's a good deal at all, if Samsung come

The "non-exclusive" bit is actually quite important here. This means anyone can get IP from HTC, and I am not sure if that's a good deal at all, if Samsung comes along to pour down couple billions. What isn't clear is whether Google will have access to the exclusive HTC intellectual property at all.

usrusr 9y ago
The way I read it the "non-exclusive" refers to the access, not to the IP: Google got a permanent license to use every IP HTC owns. HTC stays the owner and could strike similar deals with others or completely sell it in parts or whole, Google's ability to use those patents would be unaffected, as selling IP does not revoke existing licences. There is no mystery about some distinction between "exclusive IP" and "non-exclusive IP" (whatever that would mean).
- yeukhon 9y ago
  That's what I meant. They have access, but what is really not clear is whether they have access to the exclusive IP. If they don't, they would have to strike for another agreement. This is not noted in this announcement, which makes perfect sense. This is a collaboration agreement more than anything else.
  - cbraz 9y ago
    What exclusive IP? What's being discussed is "non-exclusive access" to IP. Meaning that Google/Alphabet can make use of that IP and HTC can still use it or license it to other companies.
    - yeukhon 9y ago
      You still don't get it. This does not mean Google has the whole IP. In simple terms, what Google gets is not the best deal if what they can access are also available to other competitors for a deal. Get it now? You usually want to have exclusive access, like certain songs are exclusively released on Spotify. Get it?
      - s73ver_ 9y ago
        It means that Google can use it at all. Otherwise they would be unable to use it. Which is what they're concerned about. Previously, with other companies actually making the phones, they didn't have to worry about that kind of thing. Now that they're looking to do more of it themselves, they do. Google doesn't give a damn if Samsung can come in and use the same IP and have similar features on their phones. Remember, Google just wants to improve the Android experience as a whole. If they use the HTC IP in a cool way, it's good for Google if Samsung does the same thing.
        yeukhon 9y ago
        I am confused. What kind of things? Google's intention is not to improve Android. They know what features people want. What they want is to expand their business in consumer hardware. This could be useful for technology such as Google hlr Glass. Whatever they can scrape together. The real only exclusive deal right now is they have a bunch of HTC engineers working at Google. I do not understand how so many still don't get why I brought up this exclusive vs non-exclusive deal. The best deal one can get is exclusive rights. The unknown here is we don't know whether Google's agreement includes (NDA) any exclusive IP.
        s73ver_ 9y ago
        Google's intention is to improve Android, because that's how they make their money: People using Android, and sending their data to Google so Google can sell ads. Google doesn't make their money selling consumer hardware; that's more of a side business, and is really there to push Android forward, so more people use Android, so more data gets slurped up by Google.
        yeukhon 9y ago
        They don't need to improve Android that way. Google already know how to push Android forward through marketing research. Even though $1 billion dollar is a penny to Google, they didn't have to go through all that trouble if they want to "improve Android." You have look at the diverse investment Google has made. They want to try new things by looking at IP and acquiring talents. That's all the agreement is all about. Google business team isn't a group of third-graders. The Motorola acquisition was both desire to exercise the IP and as a mean to defend patent wars. But people thought they were all about making new phones (which can always make more money and more ad money). In the end engineers got transferred to other teams within Google. Of course they want to move into consumer hardware for the exact reason you listed: sell more ads. They got certain group of engineers so they can work on projects Google either haven't revealed or improving existing hardware projects, most of the code will remain proprietary. You don't see most of the Google Home code in open source Android codebase, except whatever Google believes are valuable for the community. There is no altruism here. Otherwise there would not be any patents and any licenses except "no license" license. I suggest those downvoted me please think about why software companies want to move into consumer products in the end. Why is FB building hardware? Why Kindle in the first place? Why Google Home or Amazon Echo? Read up various highly regarded analysts' reviews on new sites. Those people do better analysis than I do here.
- 9935c101ab17a66 9y ago
  It took me a few minutes, but I think I understand what GP is saying. Basically, they are speculating that though the press release only mentions "non-exclusive" access to some of HTC's IP, Google may have arranged "exclusive" access to a different set of HTC's IP. I think. Not really sure this makes any sense, because it's not covered in the article, and I don't see why Google wouldn't announce that was the case to make the deal appear to be better value.

usrusr 9y ago

The way I read it the "non-exclusive" refers to the access, not to the IP: Google got a permanent license to use every IP HTC owns. HTC stays the owner and could strike similar deals with others or completely sell it in parts or whole, Google's ability to use those patents would be unaffected, as selling IP does not revoke existing licences. There is no mystery about some distinction between "exclusive IP" and "non-exclusive IP" (whatever that would mean).

yeukhon 9y ago
That's what I meant. They have access, but what is really not clear is whether they have access to the exclusive IP. If they don't, they would have to strike for another agreement. This is not noted in this announcement, which makes perfect sense. This is a collaboration agreement more than anything else.
- cbraz 9y ago
  What exclusive IP? What's being discussed is "non-exclusive access" to IP. Meaning that Google/Alphabet can make use of that IP and HTC can still use it or license it to other companies.
  - yeukhon 9y ago
    You still don't get it. This does not mean Google has the whole IP. In simple terms, what Google gets is not the best deal if what they can access are also available to other competitors for a deal. Get it now? You usually want to have exclusive access, like certain songs are exclusively released on Spotify. Get it?
    - s73ver_ 9y ago
      It means that Google can use it at all. Otherwise they would be unable to use it. Which is what they're concerned about. Previously, with other companies actually making the phones, they didn't have to worry about that kind of thing. Now that they're looking to do more of it themselves, they do. Google doesn't give a damn if Samsung can come in and use the same IP and have similar features on their phones. Remember, Google just wants to improve the Android experience as a whole. If they use the HTC IP in a cool way, it's good for Google if Samsung does the same thing.
      - yeukhon 9y ago
        I am confused. What kind of things? Google's intention is not to improve Android. They know what features people want. What they want is to expand their business in consumer hardware. This could be useful for technology such as Google hlr Glass. Whatever they can scrape together. The real only exclusive deal right now is they have a bunch of HTC engineers working at Google. I do not understand how so many still don't get why I brought up this exclusive vs non-exclusive deal. The best deal one can get is exclusive rights. The unknown here is we don't know whether Google's agreement includes (NDA) any exclusive IP.
        s73ver_ 9y ago
        Google's intention is to improve Android, because that's how they make their money: People using Android, and sending their data to Google so Google can sell ads. Google doesn't make their money selling consumer hardware; that's more of a side business, and is really there to push Android forward, so more people use Android, so more data gets slurped up by Google.
        yeukhon 9y ago
        They don't need to improve Android that way. Google already know how to push Android forward through marketing research. Even though $1 billion dollar is a penny to Google, they didn't have to go through all that trouble if they want to "improve Android." You have look at the diverse investment Google has made. They want to try new things by looking at IP and acquiring talents. That's all the agreement is all about. Google business team isn't a group of third-graders. The Motorola acquisition was both desire to exercise the IP and as a mean to defend patent wars. But people thought they were all about making new phones (which can always make more money and more ad money). In the end engineers got transferred to other teams within Google. Of course they want to move into consumer hardware for the exact reason you listed: sell more ads. They got certain group of engineers so they can work on projects Google either haven't revealed or improving existing hardware projects, most of the code will remain proprietary. You don't see most of the Google Home code in open source Android codebase, except whatever Google believes are valuable for the community. There is no altruism here. Otherwise there would not be any patents and any licenses except "no license" license. I suggest those downvoted me please think about why software companies want to move into consumer products in the end. Why is FB building hardware? Why Kindle in the first place? Why Google Home or Amazon Echo? Read up various highly regarded analysts' reviews on new sites. Those people do better analysis than I do here.
9935c101ab17a66 9y ago
It took me a few minutes, but I think I understand what GP is saying. Basically, they are speculating that though the press release only mentions "non-exclusive" access to some of HTC's IP, Google may have arranged "exclusive" access to a different set of HTC's IP. I think. Not really sure this makes any sense, because it's not covered in the article, and I don't see why Google wouldn't announce that was the case to make the deal appear to be better value.