5 ms·

> So what? Lots of people don't like xenophobia. > have the right to choose who to do business with? Ah here we go. Like the hoteliers who don't allow gay pe

> So what? Lots of people don't like xenophobia. > have the right to choose who to do business with? Ah here we go. Like the hoteliers who don't allow gay people to stay ?

hudbuddy 9y ago
The only other option is to government-mandate that, right? Not saying there aren't other unfortunate consequences of allowing a business owner to choose who they serve, but I'd say the larger problem is just that people can be... well... humans aren't great. However, putting the power in the hands of the law probably doesn't fix that. Ultimately, why would you want to support someone who doesn't want you to be there? Regardless, you've given me a new thing to think about. It's a complex issue for sure.
- piva00 9y ago
  It surely helped to change how black people are treated in America, no government-mandate would mean "no blacks allowed" signs still hanging somewhere to this day...
  - mantas 9y ago
    Treating a part of your own society like shit is a bit different from society as a whole deciding they want less outsiders.
    - scotty79 9y ago
      In the era of modern travel outsiders are a part of your society.
      - kodfodrasz 9y ago
        No, they are not.
        scotty79 9y ago
        Yes, they are.
        mantas 9y ago
        Yet we don't allow random traveler to vote in local elections. Modern travel is big specifically because the world is diverse place. If all societies would try to include anyone from anywhere, they'd become similar and traveling wouldn't be as great.
        scotty79 9y ago
        By that logic you'd have to argue that children, inmates, mentally ill and those that for whatever reason didn't register to vote in states where it's required are not the part of society. Including outsiders in the society doesn't make societies less diverse. If anything it's making them more diverse because otherwise similar societies might include different outsiders and differ more because of that.
        mantas 9y ago
        Not every argument is supposed to be double-sided. Mix-mashing all societies just get them to lowest common denominator. Similar societies usually receive similar outsiders. Sometimes even outsiders from same place. Which just makes them even more similar. For example, north Germany and Bavaria are quite different places and have different culture. Yet same set of immigrants come to both. Local food is different, but kebabs are the same. If each society can choose who they want to accept and who they don't want... Then we can agree that each society can judge for itself.
kodfodrasz 9y ago
> Lots of people don't like xenophobia. And lots of people don't like foreigners. > Like the hoteliers who don't allow gay people to stay ? Even that is OK in my opinion. The market will sort it out. There are clubs where gay people can have a good time. If gay accomodation becomes a niche market, there will be people seizing that opportunity. The law shall not discriminate people, but telling people what to think and forcing them doing stuff they don't agree with is dictatorship.
- scotty79 9y ago
  If you leave it to the market you'll get segregation, and whites only stores and buses on no Jews and dogs allowed signs. Allowing this kinds of things in public space wouldn't advance humanity.
  - kodfodrasz 9y ago
    A private business is not a public place.
    - etplayer 9y ago
      But nevertheless in intrudes on the public sphere, to simply deny its effect on the culture surrounding it and the society which uses it is naive. The idea that businesses exist apart from everyone and everything is a pernicious one.
    - emj 9y ago
      I've never understood that argument; if you invite unkown customers you are inviting the public. I mean if you really want to keep it private you would have to have a guest list imho. Which is fine, but you can't have a guest list that says "not that kind of people". Private is for things like Sento imperial palace, where you guide people through your property, but when you let people in freely it is my belief that at some point that will have to be interpreted as public space (like trademarks). If you have a book that gives more nuance to this "a private buisness is not a public space" I would be glad to read it.

> So what? Lots of people don't like xenophobia. > have the right to choose who to do business with? Ah here we go. Like the hoteliers who don't allow gay people to stay ?

hudbuddy 9y ago

The only other option is to government-mandate that, right? Not saying there aren't other unfortunate consequences of allowing a business owner to choose who they serve, but I'd say the larger problem is just that people can be... well... humans aren't great. However, putting the power in the hands of the law probably doesn't fix that. Ultimately, why would you want to support someone who doesn't want you to be there? Regardless, you've given me a new thing to think about. It's a complex issue for sure.

piva00 9y ago
It surely helped to change how black people are treated in America, no government-mandate would mean "no blacks allowed" signs still hanging somewhere to this day...
- mantas 9y ago
  Treating a part of your own society like shit is a bit different from society as a whole deciding they want less outsiders.
  - scotty79 9y ago
    In the era of modern travel outsiders are a part of your society.
    - kodfodrasz 9y ago
      No, they are not.
      - scotty79 9y ago
        Yes, they are.
        mantas 9y ago
        Yet we don't allow random traveler to vote in local elections. Modern travel is big specifically because the world is diverse place. If all societies would try to include anyone from anywhere, they'd become similar and traveling wouldn't be as great.
        scotty79 9y ago
        By that logic you'd have to argue that children, inmates, mentally ill and those that for whatever reason didn't register to vote in states where it's required are not the part of society. Including outsiders in the society doesn't make societies less diverse. If anything it's making them more diverse because otherwise similar societies might include different outsiders and differ more because of that.
        mantas 9y ago
        Not every argument is supposed to be double-sided. Mix-mashing all societies just get them to lowest common denominator. Similar societies usually receive similar outsiders. Sometimes even outsiders from same place. Which just makes them even more similar. For example, north Germany and Bavaria are quite different places and have different culture. Yet same set of immigrants come to both. Local food is different, but kebabs are the same. If each society can choose who they want to accept and who they don't want... Then we can agree that each society can judge for itself.

kodfodrasz 9y ago

> Lots of people don't like xenophobia. And lots of people don't like foreigners. > Like the hoteliers who don't allow gay people to stay ? Even that is OK in my opinion. The market will sort it out. There are clubs where gay people can have a good time. If gay accomodation becomes a niche market, there will be people seizing that opportunity. The law shall not discriminate people, but telling people what to think and forcing them doing stuff they don't agree with is dictatorship.

scotty79 9y ago
If you leave it to the market you'll get segregation, and whites only stores and buses on no Jews and dogs allowed signs. Allowing this kinds of things in public space wouldn't advance humanity.
- kodfodrasz 9y ago
  A private business is not a public place.
  - etplayer 9y ago
    But nevertheless in intrudes on the public sphere, to simply deny its effect on the culture surrounding it and the society which uses it is naive. The idea that businesses exist apart from everyone and everything is a pernicious one.
  - emj 9y ago
    I've never understood that argument; if you invite unkown customers you are inviting the public. I mean if you really want to keep it private you would have to have a guest list imho. Which is fine, but you can't have a guest list that says "not that kind of people". Private is for things like Sento imperial palace, where you guide people through your property, but when you let people in freely it is my belief that at some point that will have to be interpreted as public space (like trademarks). If you have a book that gives more nuance to this "a private buisness is not a public space" I would be glad to read it.