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Also, if it was xenophobic. So what? Doesn't a businessman have the right to choose who to do business with? I believe free trade is a good thing, but seems li

Also, if it was xenophobic. So what? Doesn't a businessman have the right to choose who to do business with? I believe free trade is a good thing, but seems like many americans mistook free trade for gunboat diplomacy (see opening of Japan). In my understanding free trade is free as in free will: both parties voluntarily take part in the exchange of goods and services. Also one can be patriotic in a way that he/she (no xe!) wants to preserve the cultural heritage, which is not only buildings and artifacts in museums, but also customs. Customs can be preserved by people sustaining them by continuously acting according to them. Local customs can be ruined pretty quickly via a huge influx of tourists. Example: In my younger day I could see elderly people sitting in the small parks around playgrounds and children playing at some parts of the city. Now in these parts of the city what I can see is playgrounds have been closed. Public places have been closed, no elderly talking, playing chess on a summer afternoon. Instead there are "party tourists" littering, being loud and drunk an sometimes acting atrociously as early as 2pm on weekdays. A local custom (socialization of the locals) has been wiped by tourism. Slowly locals are freeing the "party district". I can understand why one wants to avoid such situation (even as Michelin -tourists are not this troublesome, but starts a trend, which can even lead here). Is this xenophobic, then be so. I understand why people want to be xenophobic then.

nimchimpsky 9y ago
> So what? Lots of people don't like xenophobia. > have the right to choose who to do business with? Ah here we go. Like the hoteliers who don't allow gay people to stay ?
- hudbuddy 9y ago
  The only other option is to government-mandate that, right? Not saying there aren't other unfortunate consequences of allowing a business owner to choose who they serve, but I'd say the larger problem is just that people can be... well... humans aren't great. However, putting the power in the hands of the law probably doesn't fix that. Ultimately, why would you want to support someone who doesn't want you to be there? Regardless, you've given me a new thing to think about. It's a complex issue for sure.
  - piva00 9y ago
    It surely helped to change how black people are treated in America, no government-mandate would mean "no blacks allowed" signs still hanging somewhere to this day...
    - mantas 9y ago
      Treating a part of your own society like shit is a bit different from society as a whole deciding they want less outsiders.
      - scotty79 9y ago
        In the era of modern travel outsiders are a part of your society.
        kodfodrasz 9y ago
        No, they are not.
        scotty79 9y ago
        Yes, they are.
        mantas 9y ago
        Yet we don't allow random traveler to vote in local elections. Modern travel is big specifically because the world is diverse place. If all societies would try to include anyone from anywhere, they'd become similar and traveling wouldn't be as great.
        scotty79 9y ago
        By that logic you'd have to argue that children, inmates, mentally ill and those that for whatever reason didn't register to vote in states where it's required are not the part of society. Including outsiders in the society doesn't make societies less diverse. If anything it's making them more diverse because otherwise similar societies might include different outsiders and differ more because of that.
- kodfodrasz 9y ago
  > Lots of people don't like xenophobia. And lots of people don't like foreigners. > Like the hoteliers who don't allow gay people to stay ? Even that is OK in my opinion. The market will sort it out. There are clubs where gay people can have a good time. If gay accomodation becomes a niche market, there will be people seizing that opportunity. The law shall not discriminate people, but telling people what to think and forcing them doing stuff they don't agree with is dictatorship.
  - scotty79 9y ago
    If you leave it to the market you'll get segregation, and whites only stores and buses on no Jews and dogs allowed signs. Allowing this kinds of things in public space wouldn't advance humanity.
    - kodfodrasz 9y ago
      A private business is not a public place.
      - etplayer 9y ago
        But nevertheless in intrudes on the public sphere, to simply deny its effect on the culture surrounding it and the society which uses it is naive. The idea that businesses exist apart from everyone and everything is a pernicious one.
      - emj 9y ago
        I've never understood that argument; if you invite unkown customers you are inviting the public. I mean if you really want to keep it private you would have to have a guest list imho. Which is fine, but you can't have a guest list that says "not that kind of people". Private is for things like Sento imperial palace, where you guide people through your property, but when you let people in freely it is my belief that at some point that will have to be interpreted as public space (like trademarks). If you have a book that gives more nuance to this "a private buisness is not a public space" I would be glad to read it.
hashmal 9y ago
> Doesn't a businessman have the right to choose who to do business with? Depending on the country no. In France at least, that's not how it works.
dang 9y ago
All: if you want to understand how not to comment on Hacker News, take a look at this flamewar and never, ever behave like this on HN. It's emblematic of all that this site is not for. Note also the bannage occurring below. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

nimchimpsky 9y ago

> So what? Lots of people don't like xenophobia. > have the right to choose who to do business with? Ah here we go. Like the hoteliers who don't allow gay people to stay ?

hudbuddy 9y ago
The only other option is to government-mandate that, right? Not saying there aren't other unfortunate consequences of allowing a business owner to choose who they serve, but I'd say the larger problem is just that people can be... well... humans aren't great. However, putting the power in the hands of the law probably doesn't fix that. Ultimately, why would you want to support someone who doesn't want you to be there? Regardless, you've given me a new thing to think about. It's a complex issue for sure.
- piva00 9y ago
  It surely helped to change how black people are treated in America, no government-mandate would mean "no blacks allowed" signs still hanging somewhere to this day...
  - mantas 9y ago
    Treating a part of your own society like shit is a bit different from society as a whole deciding they want less outsiders.
    - scotty79 9y ago
      In the era of modern travel outsiders are a part of your society.
      - kodfodrasz 9y ago
        No, they are not.
        scotty79 9y ago
        Yes, they are.
        mantas 9y ago
        Yet we don't allow random traveler to vote in local elections. Modern travel is big specifically because the world is diverse place. If all societies would try to include anyone from anywhere, they'd become similar and traveling wouldn't be as great.
        scotty79 9y ago
        By that logic you'd have to argue that children, inmates, mentally ill and those that for whatever reason didn't register to vote in states where it's required are not the part of society. Including outsiders in the society doesn't make societies less diverse. If anything it's making them more diverse because otherwise similar societies might include different outsiders and differ more because of that.
kodfodrasz 9y ago
> Lots of people don't like xenophobia. And lots of people don't like foreigners. > Like the hoteliers who don't allow gay people to stay ? Even that is OK in my opinion. The market will sort it out. There are clubs where gay people can have a good time. If gay accomodation becomes a niche market, there will be people seizing that opportunity. The law shall not discriminate people, but telling people what to think and forcing them doing stuff they don't agree with is dictatorship.
- scotty79 9y ago
  If you leave it to the market you'll get segregation, and whites only stores and buses on no Jews and dogs allowed signs. Allowing this kinds of things in public space wouldn't advance humanity.
  - kodfodrasz 9y ago
    A private business is not a public place.
    - etplayer 9y ago
      But nevertheless in intrudes on the public sphere, to simply deny its effect on the culture surrounding it and the society which uses it is naive. The idea that businesses exist apart from everyone and everything is a pernicious one.
    - emj 9y ago
      I've never understood that argument; if you invite unkown customers you are inviting the public. I mean if you really want to keep it private you would have to have a guest list imho. Which is fine, but you can't have a guest list that says "not that kind of people". Private is for things like Sento imperial palace, where you guide people through your property, but when you let people in freely it is my belief that at some point that will have to be interpreted as public space (like trademarks). If you have a book that gives more nuance to this "a private buisness is not a public space" I would be glad to read it.

hashmal 9y ago

> Doesn't a businessman have the right to choose who to do business with? Depending on the country no. In France at least, that's not how it works.

dang 9y ago

All: if you want to understand how not to comment on Hacker News, take a look at this flamewar and never, ever behave like this on HN. It's emblematic of all that this site is not for. Note also the bannage occurring below. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html