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> Spain is for all the spaniards. All have the same basic rights as the right to move freely inside the entire country, to work and live when they want inside i

> Spain is for all the spaniards. All have the same basic rights as the right to move freely inside the entire country, to work and live when they want inside its frontiers and to decide together about the destiny of their country. With logical exceptions (like requiring granted access to private areas); this super-basic concept is in use in all free and democratic countries of the world. Think that has nothing to do with a part of an state voting their secession and not the whole country. A question to all of the people that say that the whole country should vote. What would you do if more than 70% of the population of a part of the state would be independent? Allow them the independence and start the negotiations or don't allow>

pvaldes 9y ago
As said before, this 70% of the local population would represent, lets say, a mere 10% of the total population. So if one of each ten people voted for "yes to A", and the other nine people voted for "no to A". What should happen in a democratic system?. Well, the idea here is that you has the freedom to choose among two nice options: "yes to A" and "repeat the process until yes to A is achieved" or "start negociations to circumnavigate what people really wanted". But this is not a dictatorship, of course; we are a democratic modern society unlike the spaniards, those savages. And talking about semi-naked savages, this reminds me that extra-nice 2008 campaign launched by Catalonian independentists: "support a spanish child with more money from Catalonia". It seems that this is how they see the other spaniards. Nice image. It isn't?. http://img.rtve.es/imagenes/apadrina-nino-extremeno/1217436290528.jpg http://img.rtve.es/imagenes/apadrina-nino-extremeno/12174362... Because poor children is a perfectly fine theme to make some good laughs (They are poor, ha-haa!). To finish, and taking in mind several harassments and repeated BS like this in the last decade, I think that a lot of people in Spain would vote enthusiastically about sending this people out of Spain, even better, why not to Mars?, to build the New Castelldefells and live their futuristic utopia happy forever in the red planet.
- Oletros 9y ago
  I repeat the question, because it seems that you have not understood it. If a 70% of the population of a territory (and I'm not talking about Catalonia, because there is no majority for independence) wants to secede, what the State should do?
  - pvaldes 9y ago
    > it seems that you have not understood the question. I did, and have provided a very clear answer to the question in fact. What the government of a country should do if a group of people declare themselves on sedition, start refusing to pay taxes, wants to steal all public resources, harass and drive out of the place the people that think different, take their properties and piss generously on the constitutional rights of the majority of the citizens? Enforce the law, obviously "But, but, I want to ignore and twist the law in my benefit!. I should be allowed to do it, because I'm special!, my mom told me!" You can violate the laws everytime that you want, as long as you accept the consequences, and repair the damage caused to other members of the society.
    - Oletros 9y ago
      No, you have not understood the question. I'm not talking of what is happening in Catalonia this days. Because in Catalonia there is no majority of people defending independence. I'm asking what happens if in a part of a territory the vast majority of population doesn't want to be part of that country. If you want to talk of Catalonia, I can ask what the Central Government can do when 82% of the population (and this includes half of people that wants independence and half of people that doesn't want independence) would defend a LEGAL and proper done referendum.
      - pvaldes 9y ago
        Ok, enough of running in circles chasing our tails. The answer to your deliberately ambiguous question is the same. Enforce the law. > What if a lot of people do not want to remain in this country? They will pack, leave and try to migrate and be accepted under the umbrella of other countries typically. It is happening a lot in the last decades, by good (and sad) reasons. > What if the majority of people would hate their country (but want to remain in it). They could use the tools specified in the law to change the bad parts and improve their country democratically. As they are a majority, they are probably doing this yet since years. They must have in mind still that there are international laws and treaties. > What would happen if 100% of USA demand the independence from themselves and require to be called "Pantsdemonium, the land of the pants-free" from now on? Just a change of name (and interesting parties, like the national day of the duck and so). On the other hand, if you can't stand to be in the same room with yourself, go to see a doctor as soon as possible. > and if it was the 90%? A change of name plus a 10% of people driven off their own country, typically by violent means, if we study the human history. > and if it was the 85.45342%? the same... and more people in exodus.

pvaldes 9y ago

As said before, this 70% of the local population would represent, lets say, a mere 10% of the total population. So if one of each ten people voted for "yes to A", and the other nine people voted for "no to A". What should happen in a democratic system?. Well, the idea here is that you has the freedom to choose among two nice options: "yes to A" and "repeat the process until yes to A is achieved" or "start negociations to circumnavigate what people really wanted". But this is not a dictatorship, of course; we are a democratic modern society unlike the spaniards, those savages. And talking about semi-naked savages, this reminds me that extra-nice 2008 campaign launched by Catalonian independentists: "support a spanish child with more money from Catalonia". It seems that this is how they see the other spaniards. Nice image. It isn't?. http://img.rtve.es/imagenes/apadrina-nino-extremeno/1217436290528.jpg http://img.rtve.es/imagenes/apadrina-nino-extremeno/12174362... Because poor children is a perfectly fine theme to make some good laughs (They are poor, ha-haa!). To finish, and taking in mind several harassments and repeated BS like this in the last decade, I think that a lot of people in Spain would vote enthusiastically about sending this people out of Spain, even better, why not to Mars?, to build the New Castelldefells and live their futuristic utopia happy forever in the red planet.

Oletros 9y ago
I repeat the question, because it seems that you have not understood it. If a 70% of the population of a territory (and I'm not talking about Catalonia, because there is no majority for independence) wants to secede, what the State should do?
- pvaldes 9y ago
  > it seems that you have not understood the question. I did, and have provided a very clear answer to the question in fact. What the government of a country should do if a group of people declare themselves on sedition, start refusing to pay taxes, wants to steal all public resources, harass and drive out of the place the people that think different, take their properties and piss generously on the constitutional rights of the majority of the citizens? Enforce the law, obviously "But, but, I want to ignore and twist the law in my benefit!. I should be allowed to do it, because I'm special!, my mom told me!" You can violate the laws everytime that you want, as long as you accept the consequences, and repair the damage caused to other members of the society.
  - Oletros 9y ago
    No, you have not understood the question. I'm not talking of what is happening in Catalonia this days. Because in Catalonia there is no majority of people defending independence. I'm asking what happens if in a part of a territory the vast majority of population doesn't want to be part of that country. If you want to talk of Catalonia, I can ask what the Central Government can do when 82% of the population (and this includes half of people that wants independence and half of people that doesn't want independence) would defend a LEGAL and proper done referendum.
    - pvaldes 9y ago
      Ok, enough of running in circles chasing our tails. The answer to your deliberately ambiguous question is the same. Enforce the law. > What if a lot of people do not want to remain in this country? They will pack, leave and try to migrate and be accepted under the umbrella of other countries typically. It is happening a lot in the last decades, by good (and sad) reasons. > What if the majority of people would hate their country (but want to remain in it). They could use the tools specified in the law to change the bad parts and improve their country democratically. As they are a majority, they are probably doing this yet since years. They must have in mind still that there are international laws and treaties. > What would happen if 100% of USA demand the independence from themselves and require to be called "Pantsdemonium, the land of the pants-free" from now on? Just a change of name (and interesting parties, like the national day of the duck and so). On the other hand, if you can't stand to be in the same room with yourself, go to see a doctor as soon as possible. > and if it was the 90%? A change of name plus a 10% of people driven off their own country, typically by violent means, if we study the human history. > and if it was the 85.45342%? the same... and more people in exodus.