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>The issue is you're stuck thinking that any other race is your enemy. I am certainly not "stuck" thinking anything, and I never suggested anyone was my enemy.

by seabta 9y ago

>The issue is you're stuck thinking that any other race is your enemy. I am certainly not "stuck" thinking anything, and I never suggested anyone was my enemy. All I've suggested is that different policies will benefit or harm different races unevenly, and that in general people will be biased toward their own race. >just want equality You're not paying attention. I've already been over this. Even if they really do want equality, that's just a vague concept. It means different things to different people. There is no agreement over what objective criteria should be used to decide whether something meets the definition. When it comes down to deciding whether some policy promotes "equality", people are going to be influenced by their bias. You haven't once addressed this point. >Equality is a concept Exactly, it is just a concept. There are no clear, unambiguous, universally agreed upon criteria we can apply to some particular policy such that we would all come to the exact same conclusion. There is a whole lot of gray area, and that is where bias comes into the picture, even in the ideal scenario in which everyone is pro-equality. >These people are all jackholes... These people are the ones that publicly embrace their bias. They are not the only ones with a bias. Everyone has a bias. Not everyone is biased in favor of their own race, but most people are, consciously or not. >you break the peace The imaginary peace, which I have conclusively demonstrated cannot exist. >Its not demographics that are a problem Right, it's the fact that people are biased.

dragontamer 9y ago
> Even if they really do want equality, that's just a vague concept. Well yeah. Justice, Equality for all, everything is a vague concept. There are entire books, parodies, and movies on this subject. Unless you're seriously suggesting to me that YOU don't understand the concept behind equality. But that's not the issue here. The issue is that you think no one else believes in Equality, or something. > All I've suggested is that different policies will benefit or harm different races unevenly, and that in general people will be biased toward their own race. And all we gotta do is work on politics and demonstrate viewpoints where things truly are equal, in a way that many people can agree upon. Its really not that hard. Bullies calling African Americans the N-word? That's not cool, chastise those guys. Racial Voting suppression going on in a certain area? F-those guys too, we shouldn't be trying to make one race have an easier time voting than another. Racial Quotas being suggested to be part of college-acceptance? That seems a bit like a bad idea to me. I mean, these are REAL issues that are addressed all the time in Politics. Each time, "equality" may be up for debate but society comes to a general, sane conclusion. --------------- I don't expect everyone's definition of "equality" to perfectly match. For the most part, I just don't want people to advocate the advance THEIR race at the detriment of other races. And politics is work. That means I have to work to figure out people's opinions, analyze their viewpoints, and make decisions based on that.
- seabta 9y ago
  >Justice, Equality for all, everything is a vague concept. So then you understand there is plenty of room for bias to create disagreement, which can have real world consequences, as I've been saying? >The issue is that you think no one else believes in Equality, or something. It's the "or something" bit, which I've explained very clearly, repeatedly, but which you won't address because it annihilates your argument. >And all we gotta do... Ya, all we gotta do. Easy as 1 2 3. Just tell mean white people not to call blacks the 'N' word and poof! Everyone will agree on the precise definition of equality. >Racial Quotas being suggested... You understand that a whole lot of people disagree with you about whether that promotes equality, right? All we gotta do is get them to agree with you, right? Just give the finger to people who engage in racial voting suppression, and bam! The exact definition of equality will get slammed into everyone's mind so hard they won't be able to disagree. As long as there are a few cases which you think no one could disagree with, even though people have disagreed with them rather strenuously in the past, the precise, universally agreed upon definition must be right around the corner, right? >but society comes to a general, sane conclusion. You understand society came to the conclusion 200 years ago that equality didn't even apply to other races, right? They believed in equality, they just meant something a little different by it than you do. >I don't expect everyone's definition of "equality" to perfectly match. So then you understand there's room for reasonable disagreement among reasonable people, and that their human biases will generally result in them preferring the answer which is better for their own race? >For the most part, I just don't want people to advocate the advance THEIR race at the detriment of other races. No one cares what you want. You not wanting it doesn't mean it's not going to happen. People are going to be biased toward their own race, consciously or not, and that's going to have real world consequences. Your hopes and feelings don't change reality.
  - dragontamer 9y ago
    > No one cares what you want If you don't care for my thoughts, then you don't need to have them.
    - seabta 9y ago

by seabta 9y ago

dragontamer 9y ago

> Even if they really do want equality, that's just a vague concept. Well yeah. Justice, Equality for all, everything is a vague concept. There are entire books, parodies, and movies on this subject. Unless you're seriously suggesting to me that YOU don't understand the concept behind equality. But that's not the issue here. The issue is that you think no one else believes in Equality, or something. > All I've suggested is that different policies will benefit or harm different races unevenly, and that in general people will be biased toward their own race. And all we gotta do is work on politics and demonstrate viewpoints where things truly are equal, in a way that many people can agree upon. Its really not that hard. Bullies calling African Americans the N-word? That's not cool, chastise those guys. Racial Voting suppression going on in a certain area? F-those guys too, we shouldn't be trying to make one race have an easier time voting than another. Racial Quotas being suggested to be part of college-acceptance? That seems a bit like a bad idea to me. I mean, these are REAL issues that are addressed all the time in Politics. Each time, "equality" may be up for debate but society comes to a general, sane conclusion. --------------- I don't expect everyone's definition of "equality" to perfectly match. For the most part, I just don't want people to advocate the advance THEIR race at the detriment of other races. And politics is work. That means I have to work to figure out people's opinions, analyze their viewpoints, and make decisions based on that.

seabta 9y ago
>Justice, Equality for all, everything is a vague concept. So then you understand there is plenty of room for bias to create disagreement, which can have real world consequences, as I've been saying? >The issue is that you think no one else believes in Equality, or something. It's the "or something" bit, which I've explained very clearly, repeatedly, but which you won't address because it annihilates your argument. >And all we gotta do... Ya, all we gotta do. Easy as 1 2 3. Just tell mean white people not to call blacks the 'N' word and poof! Everyone will agree on the precise definition of equality. >Racial Quotas being suggested... You understand that a whole lot of people disagree with you about whether that promotes equality, right? All we gotta do is get them to agree with you, right? Just give the finger to people who engage in racial voting suppression, and bam! The exact definition of equality will get slammed into everyone's mind so hard they won't be able to disagree. As long as there are a few cases which you think no one could disagree with, even though people have disagreed with them rather strenuously in the past, the precise, universally agreed upon definition must be right around the corner, right? >but society comes to a general, sane conclusion. You understand society came to the conclusion 200 years ago that equality didn't even apply to other races, right? They believed in equality, they just meant something a little different by it than you do. >I don't expect everyone's definition of "equality" to perfectly match. So then you understand there's room for reasonable disagreement among reasonable people, and that their human biases will generally result in them preferring the answer which is better for their own race? >For the most part, I just don't want people to advocate the advance THEIR race at the detriment of other races. No one cares what you want. You not wanting it doesn't mean it's not going to happen. People are going to be biased toward their own race, consciously or not, and that's going to have real world consequences. Your hopes and feelings don't change reality.
- dragontamer 9y ago
  > No one cares what you want If you don't care for my thoughts, then you don't need to have them.
  - seabta 9y ago