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Your solipsism is preventing you from understanding my point. It does not matter what policies you support. It does not matter who you give a middle finger to.

by seabta 9y ago

Your solipsism is preventing you from understanding my point. It does not matter what policies you support. It does not matter who you give a middle finger to. You are not the supreme emperor. What you support does not become law. Laws come about through a process involving great numbers of humans who are acting as a consequence of their biases. >The world isn't perfect, and I don't expect perfect policy decisions to be made all the time. That's, again, not the point. The point is that policy decisions which affect all races equally are not available in many cases, no matter who you give the finger to. >And that's where the power of fair governance comes into play. What power? Who decides what constitutes fair governance? Who makes sure fair governance is what happens? Please do not reply by saying you give a middle finger to everyone who doesn't support fair governance. That is not an answer. >You said the wall is a racial issue It's an issue which affects the racial demographics of the United States, which over the past 50 years have been changing dramatically. Those are not controversial facts. This discussion has been racial since the comment I initially replied to which suggested Donald Trump has a "solid pulse on scared white men".

dragontamer 9y ago
> What power? Who decides what constitutes fair governance? This is a democracy. You and I do. The only question therefore, is if you support policies that I support. If you do not, then we do not work together and instead we work against each other in the system that has been created. Just as "Black Power" advocates get a say, you and I get a say in the governance system of this country. As do "White Supremacists". But MY ideal is a system where no race is superior to any other race. That's really all I'm trying to convince you of, that working on the ideal of equality for all is worth fighting for. > It's an issue which affects the racial demographics of the United States, which over the past 50 years have been changing dramatically. I can tell you aren't an idiot either. But come on, I know what you're going for. > This discussion has been racial since the comment I initially replied to which suggested Donald Trump has a "solid pulse on scared white men". Well congrats then, you've been played and trolled. Some would call this effect "getting triggered". And you've continued to keep it racial instead of diverting it to more important, universal issues. For example, when I discuss the wall its typically about immigration policy, the needs of the labor force, and projections of the number of jobs we need. "Racial Demographics" is very, very, very low on the list of shit I care about. I don't see why anyone should give an F about a 45% White population vs a 55% white population. But maybe you can explain to me why this is an important issue for you? Or is that REALLY what you want to be talking about? ----------------------- Look, I understand the cause of propagating a US Culture where people speak English. I'm actually more conservative on this issue than most people are. For example: there are plenty of examples of non-English speaking people getting in trouble in the local Bay in my State. Locals have issues communicating with them that a storm is coming in, and next thing we know, a few non-English speakers are lost in the stormy waters. So I do have a belief that standardizing on English speaking in this country would be beneficial, especially in local / rural areas where its impossible to find a translator. There are truly cultural issues at hand to talk about that can benefit society as a whole. --------------- Now that I've given you an example of my perspective, I expect you to be able to "sell" this "protecting racial demographics" thing to me. What the hell are you talking about?
- seabta 9y ago
  >This is a democracy. You and I do. Right, a whole bunch of biased people. You're making my argument for me. They don't all agree on what fair governance means. Even if they all say they support it, and they mean what they say, when it comes down to specific issues, they will be viewing those issues through their biased lens. >I don't see why anyone should give an F I've tried to explain that. If you expected that other racial groups were going to use their political power to benefit their own race at the expense of your race, which is a totally reasonable outcome to expect, you might be concerned for the well-being of your descendants. >Now that I've given you... I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I'm trying to explain why people might have a reasonable concern about changing racial demographics.
  - dragontamer 9y ago
    > I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I'm trying to explain why people might have a reasonable concern about changing racial demographics. To be honest, your explanation doesn't seem very reasonable to me. > I've tried to explain that. If you expected that other racial groups were going to use their political power to benefit their own race at the expense of your race, which is a totally reasonable outcome to expect, you might be concerned for the well-being of your descendants. Seems to me the problem is unreasonably biased people. And yes, I agree they exist. The issue is you're stuck thinking that any other race is your enemy. That's not how it works. Most Muslims, African Americans, and whatever minority is out there, just want equality. And yes, white-people too. In general: most people want equality. This isn't a racial issue. Equality is a concept that unites everybody. There are a few bad apples out there: ISIS, Black Power, White Supremacists, NeoNazis, etc. etc. These people are all jackholes who favor their own race (or in ISIS's case: religion) over all others. We should create systems to find and demonstrate "Hate Groups" and creators of racial tension and use our abilities to stamp them out. ------------ The minute you start talking about "racial demographics are weakening my race" however, you break the peace and you've broken the idea of racial equality. Its not demographics that are a problem, its the individual jackholes and jackasses who manipulate our political system for their gain. Fortunately for America, these "haters" are in the gross minority. They're loud, they're proud and they show up in virtually every news story / protest. But their viewpoints are incredibly fringe.

by seabta 9y ago

dragontamer 9y ago

> What power? Who decides what constitutes fair governance? This is a democracy. You and I do. The only question therefore, is if you support policies that I support. If you do not, then we do not work together and instead we work against each other in the system that has been created. Just as "Black Power" advocates get a say, you and I get a say in the governance system of this country. As do "White Supremacists". But MY ideal is a system where no race is superior to any other race. That's really all I'm trying to convince you of, that working on the ideal of equality for all is worth fighting for. > It's an issue which affects the racial demographics of the United States, which over the past 50 years have been changing dramatically. I can tell you aren't an idiot either. But come on, I know what you're going for. > This discussion has been racial since the comment I initially replied to which suggested Donald Trump has a "solid pulse on scared white men". Well congrats then, you've been played and trolled. Some would call this effect "getting triggered". And you've continued to keep it racial instead of diverting it to more important, universal issues. For example, when I discuss the wall its typically about immigration policy, the needs of the labor force, and projections of the number of jobs we need. "Racial Demographics" is very, very, very low on the list of shit I care about. I don't see why anyone should give an F about a 45% White population vs a 55% white population. But maybe you can explain to me why this is an important issue for you? Or is that REALLY what you want to be talking about? ----------------------- Look, I understand the cause of propagating a US Culture where people speak English. I'm actually more conservative on this issue than most people are. For example: there are plenty of examples of non-English speaking people getting in trouble in the local Bay in my State. Locals have issues communicating with them that a storm is coming in, and next thing we know, a few non-English speakers are lost in the stormy waters. So I do have a belief that standardizing on English speaking in this country would be beneficial, especially in local / rural areas where its impossible to find a translator. There are truly cultural issues at hand to talk about that can benefit society as a whole. --------------- Now that I've given you an example of my perspective, I expect you to be able to "sell" this "protecting racial demographics" thing to me. What the hell are you talking about?

seabta 9y ago
>This is a democracy. You and I do. Right, a whole bunch of biased people. You're making my argument for me. They don't all agree on what fair governance means. Even if they all say they support it, and they mean what they say, when it comes down to specific issues, they will be viewing those issues through their biased lens. >I don't see why anyone should give an F I've tried to explain that. If you expected that other racial groups were going to use their political power to benefit their own race at the expense of your race, which is a totally reasonable outcome to expect, you might be concerned for the well-being of your descendants. >Now that I've given you... I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I'm trying to explain why people might have a reasonable concern about changing racial demographics.
- dragontamer 9y ago
  > I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I'm trying to explain why people might have a reasonable concern about changing racial demographics. To be honest, your explanation doesn't seem very reasonable to me. > I've tried to explain that. If you expected that other racial groups were going to use their political power to benefit their own race at the expense of your race, which is a totally reasonable outcome to expect, you might be concerned for the well-being of your descendants. Seems to me the problem is unreasonably biased people. And yes, I agree they exist. The issue is you're stuck thinking that any other race is your enemy. That's not how it works. Most Muslims, African Americans, and whatever minority is out there, just want equality. And yes, white-people too. In general: most people want equality. This isn't a racial issue. Equality is a concept that unites everybody. There are a few bad apples out there: ISIS, Black Power, White Supremacists, NeoNazis, etc. etc. These people are all jackholes who favor their own race (or in ISIS's case: religion) over all others. We should create systems to find and demonstrate "Hate Groups" and creators of racial tension and use our abilities to stamp them out. ------------ The minute you start talking about "racial demographics are weakening my race" however, you break the peace and you've broken the idea of racial equality. Its not demographics that are a problem, its the individual jackholes and jackasses who manipulate our political system for their gain. Fortunately for America, these "haters" are in the gross minority. They're loud, they're proud and they show up in virtually every news story / protest. But their viewpoints are incredibly fringe.