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Google Is Close to Buying HTC Assets to Bolster Hardware
- mc42 9y agoWhat leaves me curious is what's to happen of the Vive hardware line that Valve sells made by HTC.
- johansch 9y agoI would be positively surprised if the continued the open approach (no walled garden) that Valve initiated.
- aphextron 9y agoI don't think it really matters. All of the meaningful technology behind Vive (Lighthouse sensors, SteamVR, and the associated IMU firmware) is all developed and licensed to pretty much anyone who wants it by Valve. In the end Vive will be the VR equivalent of the first Android phone. A breakthrough piece of tech which led the way for an entire ecosystem of products to develop, but forgotten and obsolesced in it's own right.
- bhouston 9y agoWindows is putting VR into the OS at the driver layer. This will open up a lot of new device opportunities. I am not sure if VIVE has a major competitive advantage in that scenario.
- baby 9y agoI really hope you're wrong as it is currently the best VR headset on the market and the most promising one as well.
- Impossible 9y agoLG is working on a SteamVR headset that uses Lighthouse and seems to be roughly on par, if not better than Vive. https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/2/14769624/lg-valve-vr-headset-development-kit-hands-on-gdc-2017 https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/2/14769624/lg-valve-vr-heads.... I think OPs point was, even if HTC stops manufacturing Vive there will be Vive quality or better headsets that use Lighthouse tracking, which along with the upcoming knuckle controllers and vive trackers are the real competitive advantage Vive has over Rift or Microsoft MR headsets in PC VR.
- drzaiusapelord 9y agoHTC has an entirely different division for VR which is not included in this sale. Most likely its the only profitable part of HTC and is mostly safe from anything negative this acquisition might bring.
- rocky1138 9y agoI've seen other people state this but never seen a source. Do you know this to be fact? How?
- ehsankia 9y agoAh, that would've been interesting for Google to own too, considering they've been dabbling in VR, and have actually created content for the Vive such as the drawing app or Google Earth.
- dhosek 9y agoIt's about time! Google should have bought a handset maker years ago! It can't fail!
- craftyguy 9y agoGoogle used to own Motorola Mobility.
- mattnewton 9y agoThat's the joke.
- craftyguy 9y agoSarcasm doesn't always convey correctly over text, especially when there are folks around who don't know that this is not the first time Google has been down this road.
- dragon_greens 9y agoMistakes are meant to be repeated. /s Still, an open question is why would they feel the need to buy an exisiting company? Couldnt they simply recreate a hardware company from scratch with their resources? HTC is not exactly a world leader or some unique innovator here.
- prklmn 9y agoSeriously...do these guys have short term memory loss?
- bryanlarsen 9y agoOTOH, making mistakes is the best way to learn. Maybe they'll do it differently and knock it out of the park this time.
- baby 9y ago> HTC is not exactly a world leader or some unique innovator here It used to be. There was a time, not so long ago, where HTC Desire and others were the Android phones to have. Their engineers are great, you can't deny that.
- MikusR 9y agoThe question is: are any of them still working there?
- quantummkv 9y agoWhat HTC has here is experience, facilities and a supply chain. Recreating a hardware company from scratch is not an easy job. You don't get any prebuild packages that you can just reuse. You have to assemble your own design team. Build your own supply chain. Conduct R&D for years before getting a viable, marketable product. Even then there is no guarantee of everything going smoothly. Samsung has decades of experience and facilities. Yet the Note 7 went the way it did. I doubt Google or any of these new age silicon valley companies have the attention span to do something like this.
- 9y ago
- post_break 9y agoRemember when google bought Motorola and we thought the moto x line was going to become the new nexus? And then they sold to lenovo and it's kind of been down hill in terms of software updates. Let's see what google extracts out of HTC and then sells to someone else with this company.
- TCM 9y agoI think you must not of heard that once they sold the company to Lenovo they still kept the Patents. Most likely they will do the same. See https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/29/google-keeps-vast-majority-of-motorola-mobility-patents-in-sale-to-lenovo/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/29/google-keeps-vast-majority...
- ensignavenger 9y ago"Let's see what google extracts out of HTC" Patents and/or other assets may have been exactly what they were referring to.
- Nokinside 9y agoSame what Nokia did with smartphones. They sold remaining phone manufacturing and marketing to Microsoft but kept all patents, Nokia Research and even the Nokia brand. Smartphone market is in the state of business where manufacturing, R&D and brand marketing can be separated and mixed freely. Especially in the Android ecosystem.
- rplnt 9y ago> it's kind of been down hill in terms of software updates I don't think this is accurate. Even phones that were released during Google's ownership didn't receive any updates (during Google's ownership or after). It seems like Google never intended to own it, they just scraped it for people and patents.
- ajross 9y agoTo be fair: HTC is already a manufacturer for Google-designed hardware, which Motorola never was. I've said it before that this acquisition is best understood in terms of vertical integration than technology. If Google believes the future Pixel line (and similar devices) are going to make decent money, then buying HTC makes sense even if they don't change the working relationship between the employees at all.
- gorbachev 9y agoI think this is a good deal for nobody but those HTC engineers Google is going to hire, at least short term. The $330M price is so low none of the HTC investors are going to make any money on it. HTC's mobile phone business has been unprofitable for years and Google won't make any money on it either. Who knows maybe Google is planning on using the HTC business unit as a sort of an R&D lab for Android hardware, with no real plan on making it a traditionally profitable business.
- gorbachev 9y agoEvan Blass claims Google is acquiring some engineering assets of HTC, and that HTC will retain the brand name. That seems to support my hypothesis about the R&D lab. source: https://twitter.com/evleaks/status/910458246082826240 https://twitter.com/evleaks/status/910458246082826240
- asafira 9y agoserious question: what is the most impressive tech that has come out of HTC R&D in recent years? (for phones)
- johansch 9y agoWhat are engineering salaries like at HTC in Taipei? (A chinese-speaking friend of mine with excellent credentials and capabilities in OS quality graphical design was seriously low-balled when applying for a job there.)
- mwfj 9y agoAnswering myself: According to Glassdoor: Software Engineer: 20k USD/year Senior Software Engineer: 24k USD/year Principal Engineer: 29k USD/year (https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/HTC-Taipei-Salaries-EI_IE41150.0,3_IL.4,10_IC3271041.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/HTC-Taipei-Salaries-EI_IE41...) I get that it's not exactly Silicon Valley, but, wow.
- pc86 9y ago
- neves 9y agoSo, can someone explain me why they sold Motorola? I can't understand their strategy.
- quantummkv 9y agoThey basically wanted the patents Motorola held. They kept the patents and sold the rest to Lenovo
- hbosch 9y agoThey also kept ATAP.
- binthere 9y agoRecommend buying?
- throwaway613834 9y agoIs this for their new OS? (Fuchsia?)
- phkahler 9y agoFushia running on risc-v with AV1 codec in hardware. You need to throw all the new tech in there.
- sanxiyn 9y agoFuchsia kernel RISC-V port: https://github.com/slavaim/riscv-magenta https://github.com/slavaim/riscv-magenta
- phkahler 9y agoThat's good, but Google has recently forked Magenta into Zircon: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Fuchsia-OS-Magenta-Zircon https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Fuchsia-... And the arch folder in the Zircon repo seems to only have x86 and ARM at the moment. Perhaps they still need to pull a few changes over ;-) https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/zircon https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/zircon
- tacomonstrous 9y agoWhat's interesting about this is that HTC has a 10 year licensing deal with Apple that expires in 2022 [1] Wonder if that deal came with a poison pill. I doubt Apple wants to be a counterparty to a mobile licensing deal with Google at this point. [1] https://www.engadget.com/2012/11/10/apple-htc-patent-settlement-10-year-license/ https://www.engadget.com/2012/11/10/apple-htc-patent-settlem...
- toyg 9y agoNeither Apple nor Google want to get into a patent war, but neither want to be unprepared for one either. This is just another bit of stockpiling.
- gigatexal 9y agoMakes sense. Own the hardware and the software and create a seamless experience. It's what Apple has been doing for years. Hopefully, they can pull that off if that's indeed the aim: I might consider a Google/HTC device if they pull it off and heck it might be running Fuschia and not android and that'd be compelling to me.
- supernintendo 9y agoIt's a shame Google doesn't care about its users and actually goes out of its way to inconvenience and blame customers who experience issues with their products. Sorry but I can get my iPhone repaired or replaced in any major city on short notice and it's generally a pleasant experience. Good luck getting Google to even take manufacturing defects seriously [1]. Stop giving this company your money. [1] https://9to5google.com/2016/12/09/google-pixel-screen-peeling-support/ https://9to5google.com/2016/12/09/google-pixel-screen-peelin...
- colept 9y agoReminds me of the Nexus One when the power buttons failed left and right - both Google and HTC left many customers with expensive paperweights.
- problems 9y ago
- remir 9y agoZircon (previously named Magenta) is their new microkernel. Fuchsia is the full system.
- cromwellian 9y agoWhen Google bought Motorola, Android was under serious assault from patent trolling, and the move looked to most people to be mainly defensive to quickly build up a defensive warchest. It's my impression that Google never intended to become a serious competitor in the handset market, perhaps for fear of stepping on the toes of its partners like Samsung, so it was content to let Motorola operate as an independent entity as if Google were a holding company. This is just my personal opinion with no more knowledge than anyone else, but this HTC acquisition looks different than Motorola. It has the hallmarks of an acqui-hire, and which implies Google may no longer be content to just sit by as a cornucopia of OEMs ship commodity HW using off the shelf stuff and small tweaks, as that's never going to pull the market forward like Apple can do with vertical integration.
- arkitaip 9y agoGoogle already has serious problems with its culture that prevents it from consistently shipping consumer products. Adding HTC's overhead and shrinking market share is adding more fuel to the fire. If Andy Rubin can ship a mobile phone in just two years with ~100 employees, maybe Google could take a similar approach by funding a totally independent startup that's not burden by its culture yet has access to all of Google's resources.
- cromwellian 9y agoDid Essential actually build their phone, or did they simply contract an OEM to do it? Looks like LG might be the true maker of this device: http://phandroid.com/2017/05/30/essential-phone-manufacturer-lg/ http://phandroid.com/2017/05/30/essential-phone-manufacturer...
- ac29 9y agoAccording to the FCC test report [0], the manufacturer is "FIH Mobile Limited", which Google says is owned by Foxconn. [0] https://fccid.io/2ALBB-A11/Test-Report/Test-Report-3524146.pdf https://fccid.io/2ALBB-A11/Test-Report/Test-Report-3524146.p...
- eli_gottlieb 9y agoAnd just a year after canceling Project Ara!
- agildehaus 9y agoI realize the overhead of a modular phone would make that phone lesser than an equivalent price/weight non-modular, but at least Google would have had something unique in what's quickly becoming a stale industry. Instead they chose to compete head-on with the iPhone, and it's clear they're not doing too well at that.
- ihsw2 9y agoMy biggest complaints about the Pixel line is are price and availability -- are these going to be addressed, or will Pixel phones continue to be overpriced and out of stock? It seems to me that Google are intentionally sabotaging the success of their Pixel phone lineup. I would hate for the Nexus 6P to be my last Google phone.
- rch 9y agoI got a note about a phone-related release October 4th, so I'm reserving judgement until then.
- davidy123 9y agoI'm not convinced Google is really trying to make their hardware competitive. They are just using it to up the Android game and focus on specific features they may feel other manufacturers aren't doing a great job with or not highlighting, which is currently their assistant, as well as having a more intimate connection to some enthusiasts. Google's goal is to get many devices dependant on their ecosystem. Directly competing with other companies that use Android would not work in their interest. I hope I'm wrong though, Google directly backing a competitive and available consumer device could really put smartphones into a better territory of cost and support. Currently Samsung is quite halfhearted; while I think their hardware is great their support is more like the support one gets from a fridge than such an important and personal information device, it just doesn't compare to Apple's support.
- georgeburdell 9y agoGoogle is also poaching quite a few Apple hardware engineers if my group of acquaintances is any evidence. I wonder if they're going full on into hardware production with tight integration like on the iPhone?
- ehsankia 9y agoI'm not sure what "going full on" means, but to me it seems like they already have with the Pixel and soon Pixel 2. But yes, it seems like they are still ramping up higher.
- mtgx 9y agoI'm surprised Google would be interested in "only 100 engineers" from HTC that I almost don't see the point. Are those engineers that important to Google's smartphone hardware efforts? Is it that much easier to acquihire them for $300 million than hire them one by one?
- GFischer 9y agoBuying an existing team probably makes more sense than starting one. And if they tried to hire all 100 they'd probably be exposed to a lawsuit (plus they'd end spending a lot on bonuses and relocations anyways)
- duxup 9y agoFrom a selfish standpoint it would be nice for me if they could get back into phones and offer a mid range pixel (call it whatever) type device that gets regular security updates and etc.
- hetfeld 9y agoHTC is dead. Save my comment.
- thinbeige 9y ago> Google has tried to buy its way into hardware twice before, albeit more expensively. Google bought Danger which got Android. Motorola was a failure yes. So not twice but once.
- danans 9y agoIncorrect. Microsoft bought Danger and it gave rise to their Kin phone effort. Andy Rubin did start Danger, but he left before the Microsoft acquisition to start Android, which is what Google bought.
- samstave 9y agoSerious question: I have an iPhone 6+ -- and it is 90% great. (some UX choices suck on a bigger device, I cant hit certain buttons when one-handing the device) I really like the essential.... I hear good things about the Pixels. I would only up to the iPhone X for water resistence... They are all nearly $1K (I worked in Intel's game developer relations lab in the 90s when they were trying to prove that a <$1k computer was even possible (Celeron's with SIMD)... Now its like a phreaking phone is going to be hitting/pushing the ~$1K mark.... Should I get a new phone, and if so, of those three, which would be best?
- strictnein 9y agoWhy not the iPhone 8? Of course, an iPhone 8 Plus with 256GB of memory is right up near $1k as well. I'm switching back from a Samsung Galaxy S8, which like the iPhone X has an OLED screen and doesn't feature a home button (Samsung is making the iPhone X's screen). Just too much time waiting for it to recognize me. It wasn't a lot, but enough to be annoying.
- matthewrudy 9y agoI have the S8, and although the rear fingerprint sensor is less convenient than the front, I haven't even considered using the face or iris unlock. Just stick your finger round the back and you'll be happy.
- sorenjan 9y agoGoogle will show the Pixel 2 and 2 XL in about two weeks, but the leaks doesn't look very impressive. The Essential doesn't get great reviews. The best Android phone this fall is probably the LG V30. LG is also the manufacturer of the Pixel 2 XL, so chances are it will be a watered down version of LG's own model. If you want a smaller phone the Sony XZ1 compact is your best bet.
- dingo_bat 9y agoIMO the only two phone manufacturers worth considering are Apple and Samsung. Their devices are the most polished, the customer support is good, the hardware is innovative. Just compare the latest iPhone and the latest Galaxy and buy the one you like. Everything else is an also ran. You will always have some shitty problem that will ruin your experience. For example, camera with Sony, random Bluetooth glitches with pixel, generally shitty reliability from HTC and LG, weird sim card issues with Xiaomi, WiFi issues with OnePlus. Both of them may seem a tad too expensive if you compare similar hardware from others, with Apple even more expensive than Samsung. But the extra money is there for a reason. It takes more money to deliver a good experience. It takes more money to develop your own chips and your own software.
- baybal2 9y ago>Google will keep the HTC brand and take on about 100 HTC engineers Only 100 engineers? They are not planning on retaining HTC's phone unit any much functional.
- randall 9y agoIt's interesting to me that a tweet from a single well respected journalist (@evleaks) can set off a huge chain reaction of coverage.
- AdmiralAsshat 9y agoThis would have been great if Google had bought HTC about three years ago, back when it was making the HTC One M7. The company was struggling then, but still had plenty of prestige. The problem now is that HTC has been sinking for so long that most of its famous engineers and personnel have long since jumped ship, so I'm not even sure Google will get much out of this acqui-hire. I would assume that none of this involves the Vive, as that seems too profitable right now for HTC to sell. Don't get me wrong, if we got another HTC Google Play Edition phone using an HTC 10 successor (really don't like the U11, go back to the HTC One design template, please), that would be awesome. But I'm not holding my breath.
- on_and_off 9y agoHonest question : Is the Vive really profitable ? It seems to me that this current generation of VR is a niche that lacks any killer app and that any tangible improvement is very incertain
- SolarNet 9y agoYea, but they can charge any amount of money for it. The market is so small, that they can charge arbitrary profit for the best headset in the market. They also make all the peripheral and headset prerequisties and components, so when people compete on new peripherals or headsets, they still win.
- asafira 9y agoHow do you know that HTC has been losing their good engineers? Otherwise, I had long thought that this move by Google would be to bolster their manufacturing capabilities, less so a move to acqui-hire amazing engineers.
- AdmiralAsshat 9y agoWell, first their lead of VP of Design, Scott Croyle quit in 2014: https://www.engadget.com/2014/04/25/htc-design-head-leaving/ https://www.engadget.com/2014/04/25/htc-design-head-leaving/ Then his successor, Jonah Becker, left about ten months after: https://www.engadget.com/2015/03/26/htc-jonah-becker-resigns/ https://www.engadget.com/2015/03/26/htc-jonah-becker-resigns... And finally, Google poached one of the lead engineers behind the Vive: https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/26/14395134/google-daydream-claude-zellweger-htc-vive-designer https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/26/14395134/google-daydream-... I have no clue if Daniel Hundt, seen here talking about the One M7 design, is still with HTC or not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V95163BU-sY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V95163BU-sY
- Jayakumark 9y agoThey should instead buy a SoC company like mediatek and build own SoC competing apple AX series and Qualcomm 800 series with additional processing engine like neural engine etc.. also they should buy imagination technologies previous GPU technology supplier for apple which is already up for sale This could greatly enhance android and they can start selling SoC along with software. If not they are dependent on Qualcomm to catch up with apple.
- bryanbuckley 9y agoGuess OMAP division was too expensive for them back in the day? A shame.
- bitmapbrother 9y agoOr they could do what Apple does and design their SoC's and send off the designs to TSMC for fabrication. Google has already poached Apple's lead chip architect in June of this year. https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/13/15791918/google-hires-apple-chip-architect-pixel-phones https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/13/15791918/google-hires-app...
- gxs 9y agoIt's interesting to watch the game of telephone unfold right before your eyes. >>> Google has already poached Apple's lead chip architect in June of this year. No where has it been mentioned that the person they poached was Apple's "lead" chip architect. All it says is that google poached An architect from Apple to be it's SoC lead.
- on_and_off 9y agoThere were strong rumors 1 or 2 years ago that Google was interested in building its own silicon in order ot have the SoC they want for the future of Android. Even if it is true, with Google's pathological lack of focus, this could have already been abandoned though.
- Jayakumark 9y ago
- jonthegiant 9y agoGood
- asafira 9y agoA lot of people are discussing this purchase as a way to bolstering Google's hardware R&D prowess, which I sort of don't understand: what are some of the most impressive phone innovations that came from HTC in the past 5 years?
- FTA 9y agoAnecdotal, and nothing super groundbreaking, but my HTC One M9 has a camera I'd say gives the iPhone the besg running for its money out of any Android I've seen. The phone is also an absolutely solid build...many years of ownership and I've never had a case, yet I've dropped it on at least six occasions with no problems. I'd say HTC is the Nokia of smart phones when it comes to durability. Finally, the software experience--up until ATT nearly FUBARed it with OTA trash--has been extremely pleasing. So it's an elegant phone at a price a few hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone with honestly a very similar feel all around. Unfortunately, though, I don't plan to buy a new version beyond what is currently available if they are vacuumed up by Google.
- habosa 9y agoJust off the top of my head some things that HTC did before anyone else: * First LTE phone in america (Thunderbolt) * Dual front speakers (BoomSound) * Low-MP camera (Ultrapixel) * Unibody aluminum phone (One M7) * Squeezable edges (U11) * Glasses-free 3d display (Evo 3d) I am sure I am forgetting some. HTC has always had really nice hardware on their phones and once in a while they get the software right too. While a lot of these innovations have failed in the market, in the right hands they could all be just what Google (or some other company) needs to get in front of this market.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- andreiw 9y agoAnd we all know how well that worked out for Motorola Mobility. Especially for its fungible "people resources".
- kpwags 9y agoUntil Google is willing to truly support their Pixel/Nexus devices for more than 2 years, I'm not sure what difference this will really make. Not that Samsung and others are all that great, but I guess I had hope that Google might do more with their branded phones.
- richardboegli 9y agoConfirmed by HTC https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=15303272 https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=15303272