4 ms·

Is anyone else in their early twenties, who is still a ways off from having kids but intends to, considering the option of moving to Europe to raise your kids?

Is anyone else in their early twenties, who is still a ways off from having kids but intends to, considering the option of moving to Europe to raise your kids? Could any Europeans chime in on such a sentiment?

busterarm 9y ago
It's okay. I'm in my mid-thirties and still don't see kids in the near future. Denmark would honestly be ideal.
Sargos 9y ago
Europe is a big place with wildly different educational standards. Just like the US. If you are wanting to move due to the schools then you should be aware that many places in the US have better schools than most places in Europe. It's not cut and dry.
- legitster 9y ago
  When most people refer to Europe as an example of well functioning, progressive social policies, they are most always referring to the small, wealthy, socially homogeneous Scandinavian countries.
  - felipellrocha 9y ago
    Being socially homogeneous is not relevant here
  - HarryHirsch 9y ago
    The kindergardens that I've walked past in Portugal did not feature 4-year olds cooped for hours and force-fed the alphabet. Portugal is the antithesis of Northern Europe.
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    Or France/Germany/Switzerland. Never Slovenia, Belarus, Montenegro, or Moldova.
  - rfrey 9y ago
    That is so reductive, even if it weren't a tired cliche. Not every example of a successful policy that happens outside the U.S. is because of accidental political geography.
sogen 9y ago
For more information about kids socializing and studying in other countries watch Michael Moore's doc "Where to invade next", eye opening.
toasterlovin 9y ago
Consider homeschooling. If you're religious, you'll have no trouble finding other homeschoolers for your kids to socialize with. If you're not religious, move near one of the liberal coastal cities (I'm in Portland) and you'll have lots of secular homeschoolers for your kids to socialize with. Seems a lot easier than having to deal with immigrating to another country and learning a different language.
- watwut 9y ago
  Home schooling means that one of partners has to bite it and stop working entirely. That is quite frustrating situation to be in, unless you have one of few personality types that can be happy in such situation.
  - toasterlovin 9y ago
    Fair enough. Then maybe start a school that works the way you want. Raising children is the most important work that most of us will ever do. After even the most accomplished lives, children are, with rare exceptions, the only creations which remain. So if the world around you isn't working for your children, then change it. Steve said it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvEiSa6_EPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvEiSa6_EPA
Kenji 9y ago
Schools suck everywhere until you go to a good university. Consider it mostly thrown away time to keep kids busy. Too bad all of us have to go through this.
sputknick 9y ago
One thing to consider about European education: Here in America, if you don't like the state run system, you are free to remove your kids and educate them at home. In most of Europe, homeschool is illegal. A German family was recently threatened with deportation for homeschooling their kids. Disclaimer: My wife homeschools our kids.
- aleksei 9y ago
  Homeschooling is illegal or restricted in about half the countries of Europe. > A German family was recently threatened with deportation for homeschooling their kids. I assume you mean the case from 2013 in which the asylum status of a German family was challenged? While it's true they seeked asylum in the US to homeschool their children (in 2008 or so), the deportation issue was about the validity of the initial asylum grant, not the homeschooling. It appears they were not deported in the end: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/german-home-school-family-wont-be-deported/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/german-home-school-family-wont-....
  - HarryHirsch 9y ago
    Well, they are in good company in the US. There is this notion that children are their parents property, to do with as they like until they are 18. Then they are on their own.
    - unit91 9y ago
      Versus what? The European view that children are the State's property? Surely that can't be better than letting parents raise their kids according to their best judgment.
      - aleksei 9y ago
        .. Looks like I need to chime in again. You both have incredibly biased, prejudiced and ignorant views regarding the US and Europe. Please stop.
      - 9y ago
chrismealy 9y ago
I strongly considered moving to the Netherlands because it's so much better for kids than America, but I decided it was better to be near family, and I worried that my stress in moving would be bad for the kids. I am not sure I made the right decision.
leilacc 9y ago
I'm Canadian, living in the US, planning to move back to Canada before I have kids. Education isn't the only factor, but it's definitely one of them. Anecdotally I received a world-class education in Canadian public schols, living in average middle-class neighbourhoods. It seems to be objectively true too - eg see this recent BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40708421 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40708421
CalRobert 9y ago
As someone who moved from the states to Europe and just had a kid a few weeks ago, I'm really curious what people have to say. The schools where I live (Ireland) are reasonably well-regarded but there's a lot of pressure to baptise your kid to get them preferential placement, and I still find myself looking at Finland with some envy. I _hated_ school when I was young (actually I hated it when I was older too...), and still think homework is completely unnecessary.

busterarm 9y ago

It's okay. I'm in my mid-thirties and still don't see kids in the near future. Denmark would honestly be ideal.

Sargos 9y ago

Europe is a big place with wildly different educational standards. Just like the US. If you are wanting to move due to the schools then you should be aware that many places in the US have better schools than most places in Europe. It's not cut and dry.

legitster 9y ago
When most people refer to Europe as an example of well functioning, progressive social policies, they are most always referring to the small, wealthy, socially homogeneous Scandinavian countries.
- felipellrocha 9y ago
  Being socially homogeneous is not relevant here
- HarryHirsch 9y ago
  The kindergardens that I've walked past in Portugal did not feature 4-year olds cooped for hours and force-fed the alphabet. Portugal is the antithesis of Northern Europe.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  Or France/Germany/Switzerland. Never Slovenia, Belarus, Montenegro, or Moldova.
- rfrey 9y ago
  That is so reductive, even if it weren't a tired cliche. Not every example of a successful policy that happens outside the U.S. is because of accidental political geography.

sogen 9y ago

For more information about kids socializing and studying in other countries watch Michael Moore's doc "Where to invade next", eye opening.

toasterlovin 9y ago

Consider homeschooling. If you're religious, you'll have no trouble finding other homeschoolers for your kids to socialize with. If you're not religious, move near one of the liberal coastal cities (I'm in Portland) and you'll have lots of secular homeschoolers for your kids to socialize with. Seems a lot easier than having to deal with immigrating to another country and learning a different language.

watwut 9y ago
Home schooling means that one of partners has to bite it and stop working entirely. That is quite frustrating situation to be in, unless you have one of few personality types that can be happy in such situation.
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  Fair enough. Then maybe start a school that works the way you want. Raising children is the most important work that most of us will ever do. After even the most accomplished lives, children are, with rare exceptions, the only creations which remain. So if the world around you isn't working for your children, then change it. Steve said it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvEiSa6_EPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvEiSa6_EPA

Kenji 9y ago

Schools suck everywhere until you go to a good university. Consider it mostly thrown away time to keep kids busy. Too bad all of us have to go through this.

sputknick 9y ago

One thing to consider about European education: Here in America, if you don't like the state run system, you are free to remove your kids and educate them at home. In most of Europe, homeschool is illegal. A German family was recently threatened with deportation for homeschooling their kids. Disclaimer: My wife homeschools our kids.

aleksei 9y ago
Homeschooling is illegal or restricted in about half the countries of Europe. > A German family was recently threatened with deportation for homeschooling their kids. I assume you mean the case from 2013 in which the asylum status of a German family was challenged? While it's true they seeked asylum in the US to homeschool their children (in 2008 or so), the deportation issue was about the validity of the initial asylum grant, not the homeschooling. It appears they were not deported in the end: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/german-home-school-family-wont-be-deported/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/german-home-school-family-wont-....
- HarryHirsch 9y ago
  Well, they are in good company in the US. There is this notion that children are their parents property, to do with as they like until they are 18. Then they are on their own.
  - unit91 9y ago
    Versus what? The European view that children are the State's property? Surely that can't be better than letting parents raise their kids according to their best judgment.
    - aleksei 9y ago
      .. Looks like I need to chime in again. You both have incredibly biased, prejudiced and ignorant views regarding the US and Europe. Please stop.
    - 9y ago

chrismealy 9y ago

I strongly considered moving to the Netherlands because it's so much better for kids than America, but I decided it was better to be near family, and I worried that my stress in moving would be bad for the kids. I am not sure I made the right decision.

leilacc 9y ago

I'm Canadian, living in the US, planning to move back to Canada before I have kids. Education isn't the only factor, but it's definitely one of them. Anecdotally I received a world-class education in Canadian public schols, living in average middle-class neighbourhoods. It seems to be objectively true too - eg see this recent BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40708421 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40708421

CalRobert 9y ago

As someone who moved from the states to Europe and just had a kid a few weeks ago, I'm really curious what people have to say. The schools where I live (Ireland) are reasonably well-regarded but there's a lot of pressure to baptise your kid to get them preferential placement, and I still find myself looking at Finland with some envy. I _hated_ school when I was young (actually I hated it when I was older too...), and still think homework is completely unnecessary.