12 ms·

Nest launches an outdoor security camera

118 points by smaili 9y ago

problems 9y ago
Wow... that's quite a price tag. For ~$60 USD you can pick up a 1080p camera with quite good quality, nice Sony sensor and hardware H.264 with no mandated cloud connectivity - then hook it to Xeoma, Zone Minder, Blue Iris or similar software and automatically ship the latest motion detection results up to your favorite cloud storage platform or your own server. I guess I'm probably not the target market for this though, but if you're a tinkerer there are some interesting options. And fun to be had in the firmware reverse engineering department too.
- nblavoie 9y ago
  Any suggestion for this kind of product, I'm interested to hooking one to a Pi.
  - markkanof 9y ago
    I'm just getting into the world of surveillance cameras, but I think it's more important to decide what you want to get out of any given camera, than to be concerned with any particular brand of hardware. For example, if you are hoping to capture license plates you will likely want a camera with a narrower field of view so you can get the maximum pixels per inch of coverage area. If instead you want to monitor a large area to just see people coming and going, you might want a very wide field of view, but then don't expect to be able to read license plates or get a really clear face shot from that camera.
  - problems 9y ago
    See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15296354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15296354 Only catch with the Pi might be decode/encode performance if you plan to do anything with the video on that side of things, you'd have to have video software that can take advantage of hardware acceleration on the Pi.
- hilyen 9y ago
  Also interested in your recommendation. I've tried many, all have their shortcomings.
  - problems 9y ago
    See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15296354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15296354 I'd be interested if you know any shortcomings of these, so far my experiences have been quite positive, though I have only been running a Hikvision and a cheap rebranded one for about a month. Biggest catch is probably software - you basically need a Windows box or VM for one-time configuration as ActiveX or proprietary tooling is common, once that's done you're all set and don't need to touch that tooling again, just monitor your camera via the standardized ONVIF and RTSP stream. There's potential security catch too - I managed to dump the firmware off one and crack a telnet password, but I had to manually enable telnet and so long as you do not expose it to the internet, there's not much harm there. I've read about older cameras that had hardcoded default telnet passwords with telnet on by default and unable to be turned off, fortunately I haven't seen anything that egregious yet. Overall, the shortcomings, while present are very manageable as far as I've seen. Definitely not a perfect "out of the box" experience like a Nest device will be, but cheaper, more flexible and more interesting to me as a tinkerer.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- jahewson 9y ago
  Can you link to a specific product which achieves all those things? The cheap cameras I've tried either don't support open protocols, or they want to stream your video to China, or both.
  - jsight 9y ago
    I have had good experience with an amcrest camera. It encourages you to set it up with their (terrible) service, but it also has an RTSP endpoint. It works pretty well with Zoneminder as well. Edit: I also recommend checking out the Zoneminder wiki for suggestions. Here are some pages for Amcrest: https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest_QCam https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest_QCam They also have a listing here: https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Hardware_Compatibility_List#Network_Cameras https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Hardware_Compatibility_List#Netw...
    - shostack 9y ago
      How is the security of Amcrest with where they stream and store your video? I can't find anything on their site on where the company is actually based out of. They just mention that sales in the US are sold out of the US. It's like they go out of their way to avoid answering the question of where they are headquartered.
      - jsight 9y ago
        They update it for security holes pretty regularly. I get the impression there are plenty of holes for them to fix, too. AFAIK, you don't technically have to keep it connected to their service.
  - problems 9y ago
    Any cheap Hikvision or Dahua camera will usually support ONVIF. ONVIF is the key search term, if it has that it supports the standard open protocols and it'll work with most software around. Try searching it on ebay or aliexpress. Some of these do offer their own cloud too, but it's disabled by default on all I've tried so far. A few samples: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-model-DS-2CD2135F-IS-replace-DS-2CD2132F-IS-DS-2CD2132-I-3Mp-Audio-Alarm/32539863703.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10342_10343_10340_10341_10139_10307_10137_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_100031_10099_10338_10339_10103_10102_440_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10326_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10178_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_143_10312_10313_10314_10078_10079_10073,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=6984f630-d70e-483b-af48-d925ae5be162&algo_expid=accc8357-e6d8-4982-8544-c4dd28b405d2-2&algo_pvid=accc8357-e6d8-4982-8544-c4dd28b405d2 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-model-DS-2CD2135F-I... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4MP-Dahua-H-265-IPC-HDBW4431R-ZS-IP-Camera-2-8mm-12mm-motorized-lens-IR-50M/32760551643.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10342_10343_10340_10341_10139_10307_10137_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_100031_10099_10338_10339_10103_10102_440_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10326_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10178_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_143_10312_10313_10314_10078_10079_10073,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=a2e720a4-074b-4c5e-98ac-13bae9415812&algo_expid=d0d50ed6-48ad-438f-867a-6303737124ff-2&algo_pvid=d0d50ed6-48ad-438f-867a-6303737124ff https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4MP-Dahua-H-265-IPC-HDBW4431... Heck, even my local computer store has their own branding of a cheap camera for a quite good price: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=37_498_500&item_id=102484 http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=37_498... I bought one of these recently and it seems to be a Dahua based firmware, full ONVIF support and available locally is pretty nice.
nblavoie 9y ago
Is it me or the article's photos were taken at a weird moment?
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  Yeah. These are some seriously unflattering pictures.
- patorjk 9y ago
  There really isn't a good reason to have used the first 2 pictures. They just make the presenter look bad. It leaves me wondering what they were thinking: Did they only take 3 photos? Do they need a certain number of photos per an article?
- thebrettd 9y ago
  3 shall be the number of the images, and the number of the images shall be three.
codebeaker 9y ago
I guess it's totally unavoidable, but installing hard power lines (even if it's 12v PoE) for cameras is really a deal-breaker for DIY residential installations in countries with brick and mortar construction techniques. Anecdotally, I've a Synology NAS and any* IP camera can be hooked up to it, and there are plenty with PoE, etc so what's stopping me having a camera system at home is figuring out how to drill through 60cm thick walls made of three layers of brick, insulation and render without compromising the weather seal of my house... not lack of smart features. ps. does anyone trust wifi cameras? (* not quite every camera is supported)
- nowbacktowork 9y ago
  Is running out through your attic and eaves not an option? Assuming you would mount on the under eaves anyway.
  - jsight 9y ago
    This gets to be difficult on 2 (or more) story homes.
    - jaggederest 9y ago
      Also difficult on homes with vaulted ceilings / finished attics. I have about 6" of clearance between the insulation and the sheathing and zero inside access
- marando 9y ago
  >installing hard power lines (even if it's 12v PoE) for cameras is really a deal-breaker for DIY residential installations Why? >with brick and mortar construction techniques Are there countries where houses are built using paper?
- vm 9y ago
  Ease of installation matters most. Your current setup is way beyond what most consumers would bother doing on their own Plugging this camera into a standard AC outlet and connecting to wifi is easier than it's ever been! I'm guessing you can stick it on with a strong sticker, epoxy, or something similarly easy. ADT built a $7B-valued business predicated on how hard this used to be for consumers to do. Maybe in the future these cameras will be cellular connected so no wifi setup needed. EDIT: I originally said: "Nest is clearly cloning: https://ring.com/spotlight-cam-wired https://ring.com/spotlight-cam-wired " But Nest launched first, as commenters point out below. HN crowdsourced knowledge based and fact checking FTW :) EDIT2: original Nest outdoor cameras had a magnetic attach option -- even easier than the sticker/epoxy/etc path I mentioned.
Apocryphon 9y ago
The day after August made a product launch too, interesting
asdfasdfasd333 9y ago
can't someone just rip this off your door? yoink!
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  IIRC, the Nest cam streams to their cloud service, so you'd have a nice little video of someone committing that crime.
wavefunction 9y ago
Is a security cam really the best deterrent? I figure my two pitbulls would beat out a security cam on their own merits, though I'd preferably combine the two.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Aren't home security dogs vulnerable to the "drop a piece of fresh, juicy meat on the ground" attack?
  - Spooks 9y ago
    true! but the time delay of a dog eating meat is random. I would think most dogs can finish some meat before the attacker can unmount a tv, and some dogs would prefer to...play.. with an intruder over food.
    - bduerst 9y ago
      So then you just switch to the tug-o-war chew toy attack.
  - daveFNbuck 9y ago
    Security cameras are vulnerable to the "wear a mask" attack. This is a lot easier than carrying meat around with you and more likely to be successful.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  What if you go on vacation for a week? What if you don't like dogs, or your dog is super-friendly (like my old Newfoundland was)?
- ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
  Of course your dogs are better but its not helping the world to advertise their security benefits. 1. The cost of Dog Food + Care makes them much more expensive than almost any security system. 2. Here in Las Vegas more than half the dogs in our shelter are Pit Bulls. Almost all were purchased by people who wanted a "security dog" more than a pet. If the deciding factor for you to buy an animal is the security benefit, ultimately you will not be happy with that decision. And neither will the animal.
snow_mac 9y ago
Or you can spend $30, get this indoor camera: https://www.amazon.com/Wansview-Wireless-Security-Surveillance-Monitor/dp/B01JGBIFGO/ https://www.amazon.com/Wansview-Wireless-Security-Surveillan... Or spend $42 and get it's outdoor parent: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J0V6BWA/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J0V6BWA/
- 3pt14159 9y ago
  I bought one of those shitty $30 ones. They don't work. They freeze and then you have to reset them like twice a week. I'd much rather have something made by a company like Nest that I know won't get knocked out.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    Nest has a history of shutting down product lines and rendering them unusable. One of which was just 49 days old at the time, as I recall. Revolv was the product line, though there may be more.
  - camus2 9y ago
    You mean buying something that Nest will "brick" eventually when they shut down the servers?
mattferderer 9y ago
For simple cameras, I'm a fan of the Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I CCTV POE 3MP Bullet IP HD Security Network Camera, 4mm camera for 1/3 of the price. They've done well in below -20F degree weather. Also another vote for Blue Iris. It's not the most user friendly software but it's awesome for the price. It can be tricky to get configured just right though... I would love to hear if anyone has any recommendations for getting Blue Iris to do some of the features of this camera, such as compare face images against a Google Photos API? I would also be curious to know if the cameras that move & try to auto focus are actually better. That seems like a potential plus but I could see wind blowing trees or a squirrel running causing the camera to focus on the wrong things. Maybe the Nest is smarter & only goes for certain objects that it can recognize... Motion sensor recording is kind of a pain to get right on my Blue Iris. Windy trees & spiders cause me to get a lot more video than necessary.
- JoblessWonder 9y ago
  Just be wary of Amazon vendors. I purchased a camera fulfilled through Amazon and it was a fake. Returning/Exchanging was simple but the difference in the label was clear when viewed side by side.
  - post_break 9y ago
    Not only that, but some companies offer 0 warranty when purchased through Amazon or BH. You have to buy through a distributor who will only warranty it if you have them install it. Like ACTI.
  - ad_hominem 9y ago
    I always hear people recommend Hikvision cameras but then I wonder where they buy them from, because it seems there is a lot of this counterfeiting you mention going on. Hikvision even has a page about it.[1] Makes me wonder how many folks have knockoffs and they're not even aware of it. I almost bought one from B&H Photo, but even they're not on the authorized partner list.[2] [1]: http://www.hikvision.com/us/about_10677.html http://www.hikvision.com/us/about_10677.html [2]: http://www.hikvision.com/us/distributionPartner.aspx?stat=1&c_kind=43&c_kind2=45&c_kind3=56 http://www.hikvision.com/us/distributionPartner.aspx?stat=1&...
toufka 9y ago
Does it work off-cloud? Can I firewall it entirely behind my own LAN? If so, sold. I've spent so much time screwing around with generic Chinese hardware that's, well, sometimes great (and sometimes truly worthless). Most generic brands (that exist for 6 months at a time) have software/firmware that leaves much to be desired, and is sometimes outright broken, but at least more often than not at least implement (most) of an open-source IP-cam standard (unlike the fancy expensive cameras). But I have no interest in trading any sort of even theoretical access to video of my home for a fancy web interface: http://shodan.io/ http://shodan.io/
- bitwize 9y ago
  It's a Nest. Remember their thermostat? The interclouds went down and people lost heat.
  - kodt 9y ago
    Have they fixed this issue yet? My neighbor with a Nest was just complaining that her house was so hot because the internet was down and the AC turned off.
    - olyjohn 9y ago
      Mine works fine without internet. You just can't control it remotely. People probably don't realize that the app doesn't connect across your home network. It will complain there's no internet connection, but you can still twist it and set the temp manually.
- ryandrake 9y ago
  Yea, cloud-only was the deal-breaker for me for Dropcam (now Nest). It just seems so silly and wasteful. You have a camera on your home LAN, uploading video out to a server somewhere, just so you can... download the video back to your home LAN for viewing??? WTF? Why can't I even have the option to operate it LAN-only? Just seems like a bizarre limitation from a product point of view. Obviously their business model depends on upwelling you cloud services.
bitwize 9y ago
Great. Now burglars will cut your internet connection to the outside, then rob your place.
- manarth 9y ago
  burglars will cut your internet connection to the outside How, exactly? OK, so the question is a little facetious, but most burglars won't know (or even know to consider) that they should cut a particular cable before breaking in. In many installations, that cable won't necessarily be visible/reachable: want to climb a telephone pole to cut what's hopefully an ADSL cable and not a mains electricity cable? Without anyone noticing you? Some users may also use a backup 3G/4G data connection, hook the alarm up to a UPS, and in some cases of monitored alarm systems, a data outage is in itself an alertable/respondable alarm. Your degree (and expenditure) of defense will very much depend on your perceived threat profile, but for the most part, a burglar cutting your internet connection isn't high on the threat list.
danielvinson 9y ago
I'm really having a hard time understanding what their target market is here. Most home users aren't going to pay full retail for cameras, hire a professional installer to put 1-4 cameras outside, then pay for cloud storage... or at least not without a huge amount of Support effort. Given their feature list, they aren't going to be able to compete with the business/enterprise market due to both having worse features AND being more expensive. (shameless plug: I work for a company making enterprise IP cameras, and both our cloud storage AND cameras are cheaper, while having way more features)
- davidcollantes 9y ago
  Where is the plug?
  - jtraffic 9y ago
    Not the OP, but checking his HN profile turns this up: https://viaas.com/ https://viaas.com/
- SomeHacker44 9y ago
  I was very interested in seeing what made your cameras and plans cheaper... but was disappointed. VIAAS seems to charge $479/year for 30 days of 1080p video and $399 for the camera. I don't use Nest's new camera but I have two of their indoor cameras elsewhere, for which I pay $150/year for the first camera and $100/year for the second (I think) for 30 days video. They also have a $50/year plan for 7 days of video. It also sends me e-mail and APNS alerts when it senses motion or people. So, I don't really see how your parenthetical assertion is true - despite really wishing it were true. I have evaluated and intend to use a UniFi camera system at my home when I can get around to running the PoE wires.
  - danielvinson 9y ago
    I'm an engineer, so I'm not the best at explaining how pricing works for larger companies, but most customers do not pay msrp. Our 30-day plan is $20/month msrp whereas Nest is $30/month. (Your Nest pricing is not current - you're probably grandfathered on that rate) Our main market is businesses with multiple locations who need role-based access and/or LDAP integration for cameras with cloud storage.
chrissnell 9y ago
I used to live in Tacoma, WA, which had a lot of petty crime. My neighbor was a cop and he told us that the biggest problem with security cameras was that they didn't capture faces and so the videos were useless to police and prosecutors. People typically place them up high and the burglars wear hoodies. He recommended putting them down low and hiding them, like in a bushy potted plant on your doorstep, in bushes, a hole in a fence, etc. I don't get the point of expensive, tamper-resistant cameras for home use. I'd rather have more cameras.
- pfarnsworth 9y ago
  I find the biggest problem is that even if you have a picture of the person's face, the cops really, really don't give a shit. There was talk about someone stealing packages from someone's front porch on NextDoor in my neighbourhood, and the cops told them to contact the Post Office General. The Post Office General told them to contact the cops. Literally no one cares, especially the cops.
- traviswingo 9y ago
  Also, even if the camera captures a face, most local police departments won't be able to do anything with that image except put up "wanted posters" for a while. They don't necessarily have the authority/luxury to run it through a facial recognition system to find a stolen tv.
  - monocasa 9y ago
    Even without the need for a facial recognition system, they rarely care. I've sent them footage, along with the name of the guy who's face it was and they did fuck all. The guy's in jail now though a few years later for beating his wife.
    - SomeHacker44 9y ago
      This is true. I had video of someone opening my mailbox, rifling through the mail, and stealing a check. Neither the NYPD nor the USPS gave a damn, despite this being a federal crime. My neighbor did the same thing (not on good terms; allegedly looking for misdelivered mail) and again, no penalty despite having clear video of the crime. At least if he does anything else I can it out then and show his previous malfeasance.
rdtsc 9y ago
> The camera will cost $349 and is now available for pre-order in the U.S. and Canada. Well criminals don't have to break in, just swipe the $350 expensive toy and walk away.
- crispyambulance 9y ago
  Yes, security cams are good for peace of mind, but they're not as useful as one might assume. They're not going to stop an opportunistic crack-addled bottom-feeder from doing a "smash and grab" burglary. Good for insurance, however, and check up on old-folks.
tgtweak 9y ago
$349 - No thanks.
CaptSpify 9y ago
I was able to build my own security camera with an rpi: https://blog.thekyel.com/?anchor=motion https://blog.thekyel.com/?anchor=motion The motion software is not great, but it's nice to know that my data isn't being sent off to china or some other bullshit proprietary service. My next one will be an outdoor camera, and if I can get it to work with a converter (https://www.amazon.com/GE-54276-Polarized-Handy-Outlet/dp/B002DN6QX2 https://www.amazon.com/GE-54276-Polarized-Handy-Outlet/dp/B0...), I think that will take out almost all of the wiring work.
- aluhut 9y ago
  You may be interested in this: https://github.com/ccrisan/motioneyeos https://github.com/ccrisan/motioneyeos > motionEyeOS is a Linux distribution that turns your single board computer into a video surveillance system.
  - 24gttghh 9y ago
    Yeahhh I know what I'm trying out this weekend. Thank you!
ProfessorLayton 9y ago
After a lot of consideration, and wanting to stay away from IOT horrors and complicated setup, I ended up just getting a game camera: - No wiring - Battery lasts up to a year depending on settings - Can be plugged into power - No internet, software, or 3rd party dependency - 10MP photos, HD video - One-time cost of $100 + $15 SD card I don't need to view photos or videos remotely, I only need evidence if something were to happen, so this is an acceptable solution for me, especially considering the one-time costs. Bonus: I also purchased an ADT sign + window stickers from ebay.
- sjg007 9y ago
  This is basically the best idea.
- josefresco 9y ago
  No one type of camera is going to cover every scenario. A combination of both is recommended. Traditional IP cameras (Foscam etc.) are a pain to setup, but the new generation of "dropcams" are super easy. Also, unless you hide the camera well, a thief can simply steal the camera, or disable it and remove the SD card.
  - ProfessorLayton 9y ago
    I agree its not the perfect solution. But I have yet to find anything with a better price + feature/ease of setup ratio. A lock box for the game camera is $30 and can be painted to match its surroundings.
    - fillskills 9y ago
      Can you share what game camera you used? I am not familiar with that term
      - ProfessorLayton 9y ago
        https://www.amazon.com/Stealth-Cam-No-Glo-Camera-STC-G42NG/dp/B00HMN7H04/ref=sr_1_7?s=hunting-fishing&ie=UTF8&qid=1505929114&sr=1-7&keywords=game+camera https://www.amazon.com/Stealth-Cam-No-Glo-Camera-STC-G42NG/d...
fpgaminer 9y ago
I recently researched outdoor security cameras for our home and discovered that the the outdoor security camera market is a _complete_ mess. My requirements were, I thought, fairly simple. Good quality outdoor camera which uploaded motion off-site (cloud, FTP, whatever). Apparently, that doesn't exist. Most of the cameras fail the first requirement. Terrible video quality, tiny field of view, poor build quality that results in frequent failures, and/or bad track records with security bugs. Some do okay on the first mark, but fail on the second. It's beyond me why most security cameras don't have at least _some_ ability to upload motion off-site. I have an Amcrest indoor camera, really terrible, but at least it will automatically upload motion to an FTP server. But it seems none of their outdoor cameras upload motion; only still images. !? Hikvision cameras were frequently recommended as capable and good quality, but they were riddled with security bugs. Totally unacceptable for a _security_ camera. Nest, from the article, has good build quality, and AFAIK no serious security issues. But no normal American can actually use them, because for all intents and purposes they require ~2 Mbps of constant upload bandwidth per camera. Google being Google requires the cameras upload all footage, 24/7 to their servers. For decent quality, that means 2Mbps of bandwidth. There's really no other way to use the cameras without doing that constant upload. Most Americans don't have much upload bandwidth. I only have 10 Mbps egress, which means each camera eats 20% of my bandwidth. Totally useless. Not to mention uploading 24/7 live footage of your home to Google, and paying hundreds of dollars per year in subscription fees for the privilege. Cleverloop sells a system similar to Nest, but they they do all their machine learning motion detection and such locally. So you don't have to burn upload bandwidth, and you don't have privacy issues. Plus no subscription fees. But their cameras are unreliable, 720p, limited FoV, and not standards compliant so you can't use them outside of Cleverloop's system. There was another system, who's name I forgot, which was all around good and met all the requirements ... except that apparently all the cameras have a bug where they often delay recording after motion detection for 5 seconds or so. Wow... All the other systems fall into either poor quality, buggy software, security issues, etc, etc. Basically, for the average consumer there are _no_ good options. I'm an engineer so I have the advantage of getting my hands dirty customizing things but most people don't have that option. Most people need a system that just works. It's totally crazy that such a thing doesn't exist. And personally, I'd rather not spend my time building a custom camera system. I, too, want something that just works. Well, after days of research the solution I landed on: I bought some plain ole PoE cameras from Costco. They have good specs (4MP, 90 FoV) and I trust Costco to vet for quality. Still fairly cheap (~$150 per camera). I bought an old small form factor Dell, Core i5, 2TB storage for $250 to act as the local recording station. I'll slap some software on there, ZoneMinder or Blue Iris or something, and hopefully get it to detect motion and upload those clips to the cloud. The cameras will also automatically upload snapshots over FTP (seriously why can't they just upload video!?) as at least a redundant system. I'm just aghast at how difficult and cruddy all of this is.
ddoran 9y ago
Hmmm, strange headline as Nest launched an outdoor security camera last year. This "IQ" model is a new version with higher definition picture and person-recognizing features. The original is still available.
pfarnsworth 9y ago
I have a few Nest Cameras. They are awesome, because the killer feature is the person-detection feature. It's very, very good and unlike other cameras or software packages like Blue Iris (which I bought), the person-detection and machine-learning stuff is fantastic and actually useful. I get almost zero false positives from shadows, etc. I have gone through the entire gambit, having bought Arlo, Nest, Foscam, and trying Blue Iris, etc and can definitively say that Nest is the easiest and most reliable outdoor camera. That said, I'm not going to buy this trumped up version of the camera mainly because I don't know what it buys me over the currect camera. The fact this has made the front page is kind of weird to me.
- ben174 9y ago
  Hmm, I constantly get false person alerts when two of my tiny yorkies are in frame at the same time. Must see the eyes from one, and the hips from another? Not sure. It's not super annoying though, I enjoy getting alerted a few times a day with a picture of my pups.
inertial 9y ago
D-link makes reasonable wifi cameras that can be used for home security and they double as baby monitors. You can buy 5-7 of them for the price of a single Nest camera. They have motion/sound detection (lot can be improved though). Mobile app is slow but works ok. E-mail alerts with stills/videos are useful when you are away from home.
bungie4 9y ago
I work for a large alarm monitoring service. For years, I've been sending management notifications of new entries and updates in the 'personal monitoring' space. Its actually humorous to see these old school guys who have enjoyed having a low churn subscription service cash cow for decades, be slowly disrupted. Total denial at every turn LOL. Why would anybody want to spend less than a 1/3rd the hardware cost, no installation cost, can be moved when you moved, and no monthly monitoring fee. They just don't get it. I sent them links to Nests product announcements today. It'll be interesting to see their response.
- rhizome 9y ago
  One of my oldest friends now runs his dad's small alarm manufacturer and he is 100% not interested in any new sensors or applications, at least when I bring them up. Their main goal appears to be stability and maintaining distribution to -- and the happiness of -- their installer customers. It's one of the most 1970s "independent auto parts store" mentalities I've come across in any business.
- moonka 9y ago
  Biggest reason I went with a Simplisafe system a few years ago. They have a subscription, but it's got no contract, and can be installed in about 30 minutes without leaving any permanent traces. The ideas of permanent installs and a contract were a big turnoff, especially since I had spent time removing the old defunct system that was installed but couldn't be reactivated by any of the companies I contacted.
linsomniac 9y ago
I was hopeful about this to replace my Ubiquiti cameras, but I really want something that is going to be PoE. Nest really seems to be all about WiFi, so I shouldn't be surprised, but am I the only one that doesn't want cameras on WiFi? I put up some Ubiquiti cameras last year, we live on a pretty quiet street but we had some kids pulling shenanigans (a car window was shot out with a BB gun, our Little Free Library bench was drug out into the street, change being stolen from cars). Since the cameras, nothing has happened, so that's a plus. But the Ubiquity recorder device makes the system nearly unusable. For some reason, recordings usually stop while there is still motion going on, so I end up with a lot of little 15-30 second videos that show only the start of whatever is going on. I've fiddled with it a lot and had no luck.
- SomeHacker44 9y ago
  This is disappointing to read. I just bought an outdoor Ubiquiti camera and their little VCR-cassette sized device and in my indoor evaluations it worked very nicely. I was going to put it up outdoors, but maybe I should just skip that plan and go with a traditional Nest. The indoor ones I have work very well, despite being on WiFi. I do have a solid WiFi at home, though, with two Ubiquiti AP-AC-HDs, unfortunately stuck to a DOCSIS 3.0 modem with only 20Mbps upstream (despite 300Mbps down).
  - linsomniac 9y ago
    I'd love to hear if anyone has different experience. I also did a small evaluation before I started pulling shielded Cat-5 for the cameras, but it really wasn't until I ran for weeks or months that I had problems. I really should contact support and see what they say. We have WiFi problems sometimes, it just seems like I'll have fewer problems if I run wired. At work we have a Nest and it seems to be pretty good, though it's a much more consumer level thing. Which probably is good.
  - benjohnson 9y ago
    My opinion: We install Unifi camera systems for a living - the crazy amount tiny little files and MongoDB basically require that the Unifi Video Controller have an SSD for reliable usage - that precludes the Unifi branded Unifi Controller that has a spinning drive. Our recommendation: A Intel (Intel Brand) Atom NUC with an SSD and 8GB of RAM. Installing Linux and the Unifi server on it takes about 20 minutes and you're left with a more manageable machine. I would also admit that the Unifi Video Controller hasn't been rock-solid until about a year ago - current releases now go forever without issue.
post_break 9y ago
I have a regular nest camera inside and another camera that does pan and tilt. The damn nest camera always thinks my cat is a person. Drives me mad.
gist 9y ago
> To find this out, the company actually brought in professional burglars and talked to them about their “work” experience. Ones that got caught.
gist 9y ago
> And with its built-in speaker, the IQ Outdoor does, of course, allow you to talk directly to those random people on your driveway. Note that this may very well violate certain state wiretap laws that require two party consent.
- criddell 9y ago
  How is it any different from an intercom system?
  - gist 9y ago
    An intercom in theory makes a sound when it is listening in or starts to work when the party on the other end presses a button. See this with regard to evesdropping: "New York makes it a crime to record to record or eavesdrop on an in-person or telephone conversation unless one party to the conversation consents. " http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/new-york-recording-law http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/new-york-recording-law Do I think anyone would be prosecuted? No but the way I read it it's a violation of the law.
    - jpindar 9y ago
      I hope that means deliberate eavesdropping. The street that runs right outside my window is frequently used by people walking home from the bars, and drunk people don't notice how loud they're talking. I've overheard some strange (and sometimes very personal) conversations.
deleted 9y ago
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tryingagainbro 9y ago
KISS might work best for security cameras. If someone is breaking into your house, maybe you just need a battery powered camera in the hallway. Like game cameras, battery powered and takes pictures /videos of the perp. No power problems, no internet connectivity issues etc. That's all a camera does, evidence, after the fact, unless you're Scarface and monitors everything.
kenjackson 9y ago
This article is a bit weird in that it doesn't mention that Nest already has an outdoor camera that has the features of the indoor camera -- and this outdoor camera is $199 (like $150 on Amazon). https://store.nest.com/products/NC2100ES https://store.nest.com/products/NC2100ES This article doesn't really mention why I'd spend that much more money for what seems like a very similar camera to the outdoor one already on the market.
- tehwebguy 9y ago
  Yeah and the marketing beforehand made it pretty clear that they were introducing a product they don't already nearly offer.
  - stevepaulo 9y ago
    We did. The Nest Secure alarm system is the all-new product area for us. The Nest Cam IQ Outdoor is an upgrade over the Nest Cam Outdoor.
    - kenjackson 9y ago
      I haven't seen the marketing, but the story didn't make it clear. Another poster noted the 4k and face detection, which makes sense as a differentiator. But uploading 4k from multiple cameras... isn't that going to be a problem for most home users?
      - dgacmu 9y ago
        4K sensor, uploads 1080p. 4K is used to do high-quality digital zoom (with some tricks like zooming in on person while simultaneously capturing the wide-field view).
        kenjackson 9y ago
        Ok. That makes sense.
    - deleted 9y ago
sjg007 9y ago
Here's an app idea.. scan your social network find the perp.
sixothree 9y ago
The creep and ick factor for this is my barrier.
- sixothree 9y ago
  Apparently it's wrong for me to feel icky with google monitoring who comes and goes from my house.
exhilaration 9y ago
As Nest GM of security products Michele Turner noted during an event in San Francisco today, the number one way that burglars break into a house is simply through an unlocked door. But the most important thing that deters them is a security camera. Interesting, I've read research that says the opposite - also based on interviews with convicted burglars. From "Protecting the Home: Exploring the Roles of Technology and Citizen Activism from a Burglar's Perspective": Only two participants said they were deterred by cameras. The other thirteen participants stated that cameras did not concern them because they believed that most cameras were not constantly monitored, especially police cameras. Al- though a camera played a role in one participant’s capture (P4), others believed that most cameras did not have a high enough resolution for them to be identified. P12 was the only one to describe how he disabled cameras, saying “I know how to disable [cameras]. I’d spray it and stand on the garbage and go through the window.” Former burglars generally thought cameras did not increase their risk of being caught, which is consistent with prior work [15].
- dawnerd 9y ago
  At my old house I used to have a ton of amazon box thieves, even when I was at home downstairs. Put in some commercial grade dome cameras and crime stopped very fast. I’d see people walk up in the video, see the camera and just kinda walk away. I think what you’ve pasted is more for businesses where thieves know there’s high value goods or cash. In a home it’s more smash and grab - whatever they can get quickly. End of the day though an alarm system isn’t going to stop anyone determined to get in.
- problems 9y ago
  You're talking about both what burglars say they do and what affects the risk of being caught. Both of which have no impact on how burglars actually behave in the field. They may report the most ego-boosting thing they want to, but behave very differently. A better way is to simply compare crime rates in areas with CCTV to those without. Studies like this one: https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/surveillance-cameras-and-crime https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-... That shows when CCTV is used, large, measurable drops in crime rate occurred in all circumstances tested.
NumberCruncher 9y ago
>> the number one way that burglars break into a house is simply through an unlocked door Is this a statement about criminaity or about stupidity of home owners. As a Europian it is hard to make a difference...
Shivetya 9y ago
What I want is an internal security camera that is smart enough to detect when someone is in distress. something that can record patterns and note deviations. this is all in the idea of monitoring the elderly. something that is simple to setup, where a handful of cameras and such don't break the bank all to give elderly relatives freedom and security
iak8god 9y ago
gumby 9y ago
I’m waiting for the “cheap and cheerful” version that runs pictures through your Facebook account for face identification. It will be interesting to see what happens.

118 points by smaili 9y ago

Wow... that's quite a price tag. For ~$60 USD you can pick up a 1080p camera with quite good quality, nice Sony sensor and hardware H.264 with no mandated cloud connectivity - then hook it to Xeoma, Zone Minder, Blue Iris or similar software and automatically ship the latest motion detection results up to your favorite cloud storage platform or your own server. I guess I'm probably not the target market for this though, but if you're a tinkerer there are some interesting options. And fun to be had in the firmware reverse engineering department too.

nblavoie 9y ago
Any suggestion for this kind of product, I'm interested to hooking one to a Pi.
- markkanof 9y ago
  I'm just getting into the world of surveillance cameras, but I think it's more important to decide what you want to get out of any given camera, than to be concerned with any particular brand of hardware. For example, if you are hoping to capture license plates you will likely want a camera with a narrower field of view so you can get the maximum pixels per inch of coverage area. If instead you want to monitor a large area to just see people coming and going, you might want a very wide field of view, but then don't expect to be able to read license plates or get a really clear face shot from that camera.
- problems 9y ago
  See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15296354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15296354 Only catch with the Pi might be decode/encode performance if you plan to do anything with the video on that side of things, you'd have to have video software that can take advantage of hardware acceleration on the Pi.
hilyen 9y ago
Also interested in your recommendation. I've tried many, all have their shortcomings.
- problems 9y ago
  See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15296354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15296354 I'd be interested if you know any shortcomings of these, so far my experiences have been quite positive, though I have only been running a Hikvision and a cheap rebranded one for about a month. Biggest catch is probably software - you basically need a Windows box or VM for one-time configuration as ActiveX or proprietary tooling is common, once that's done you're all set and don't need to touch that tooling again, just monitor your camera via the standardized ONVIF and RTSP stream. There's potential security catch too - I managed to dump the firmware off one and crack a telnet password, but I had to manually enable telnet and so long as you do not expose it to the internet, there's not much harm there. I've read about older cameras that had hardcoded default telnet passwords with telnet on by default and unable to be turned off, fortunately I haven't seen anything that egregious yet. Overall, the shortcomings, while present are very manageable as far as I've seen. Definitely not a perfect "out of the box" experience like a Nest device will be, but cheaper, more flexible and more interesting to me as a tinkerer.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jahewson 9y ago
Can you link to a specific product which achieves all those things? The cheap cameras I've tried either don't support open protocols, or they want to stream your video to China, or both.
- jsight 9y ago
  I have had good experience with an amcrest camera. It encourages you to set it up with their (terrible) service, but it also has an RTSP endpoint. It works pretty well with Zoneminder as well. Edit: I also recommend checking out the Zoneminder wiki for suggestions. Here are some pages for Amcrest: https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest_QCam https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest_QCam They also have a listing here: https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Hardware_Compatibility_List#Network_Cameras https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Hardware_Compatibility_List#Netw...
  - shostack 9y ago
    How is the security of Amcrest with where they stream and store your video? I can't find anything on their site on where the company is actually based out of. They just mention that sales in the US are sold out of the US. It's like they go out of their way to avoid answering the question of where they are headquartered.
    - jsight 9y ago
      They update it for security holes pretty regularly. I get the impression there are plenty of holes for them to fix, too. AFAIK, you don't technically have to keep it connected to their service.
- problems 9y ago
  Any cheap Hikvision or Dahua camera will usually support ONVIF. ONVIF is the key search term, if it has that it supports the standard open protocols and it'll work with most software around. Try searching it on ebay or aliexpress. Some of these do offer their own cloud too, but it's disabled by default on all I've tried so far. A few samples: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-model-DS-2CD2135F-IS-replace-DS-2CD2132F-IS-DS-2CD2132-I-3Mp-Audio-Alarm/32539863703.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10342_10343_10340_10341_10139_10307_10137_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_100031_10099_10338_10339_10103_10102_440_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10326_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10178_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_143_10312_10313_10314_10078_10079_10073,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=6984f630-d70e-483b-af48-d925ae5be162&algo_expid=accc8357-e6d8-4982-8544-c4dd28b405d2-2&algo_pvid=accc8357-e6d8-4982-8544-c4dd28b405d2 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-model-DS-2CD2135F-I... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4MP-Dahua-H-265-IPC-HDBW4431R-ZS-IP-Camera-2-8mm-12mm-motorized-lens-IR-50M/32760551643.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10342_10343_10340_10341_10139_10307_10137_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_100031_10099_10338_10339_10103_10102_440_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10326_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10178_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_143_10312_10313_10314_10078_10079_10073,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=a2e720a4-074b-4c5e-98ac-13bae9415812&algo_expid=d0d50ed6-48ad-438f-867a-6303737124ff-2&algo_pvid=d0d50ed6-48ad-438f-867a-6303737124ff https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4MP-Dahua-H-265-IPC-HDBW4431... Heck, even my local computer store has their own branding of a cheap camera for a quite good price: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=37_498_500&item_id=102484 http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=37_498... I bought one of these recently and it seems to be a Dahua based firmware, full ONVIF support and available locally is pretty nice.

nblavoie 9y ago

Is it me or the article's photos were taken at a weird moment?

maxxxxx 9y ago
Yeah. These are some seriously unflattering pictures.
patorjk 9y ago
There really isn't a good reason to have used the first 2 pictures. They just make the presenter look bad. It leaves me wondering what they were thinking: Did they only take 3 photos? Do they need a certain number of photos per an article?
thebrettd 9y ago
3 shall be the number of the images, and the number of the images shall be three.

codebeaker 9y ago

I guess it's totally unavoidable, but installing hard power lines (even if it's 12v PoE) for cameras is really a deal-breaker for DIY residential installations in countries with brick and mortar construction techniques. Anecdotally, I've a Synology NAS and any* IP camera can be hooked up to it, and there are plenty with PoE, etc so what's stopping me having a camera system at home is figuring out how to drill through 60cm thick walls made of three layers of brick, insulation and render without compromising the weather seal of my house... not lack of smart features. ps. does anyone trust wifi cameras? (* not quite every camera is supported)

nowbacktowork 9y ago
Is running out through your attic and eaves not an option? Assuming you would mount on the under eaves anyway.
- jsight 9y ago
  This gets to be difficult on 2 (or more) story homes.
  - jaggederest 9y ago
    Also difficult on homes with vaulted ceilings / finished attics. I have about 6" of clearance between the insulation and the sheathing and zero inside access
marando 9y ago
>installing hard power lines (even if it's 12v PoE) for cameras is really a deal-breaker for DIY residential installations Why? >with brick and mortar construction techniques Are there countries where houses are built using paper?
vm 9y ago
Ease of installation matters most. Your current setup is way beyond what most consumers would bother doing on their own Plugging this camera into a standard AC outlet and connecting to wifi is easier than it's ever been! I'm guessing you can stick it on with a strong sticker, epoxy, or something similarly easy. ADT built a $7B-valued business predicated on how hard this used to be for consumers to do. Maybe in the future these cameras will be cellular connected so no wifi setup needed. EDIT: I originally said: "Nest is clearly cloning: https://ring.com/spotlight-cam-wired https://ring.com/spotlight-cam-wired " But Nest launched first, as commenters point out below. HN crowdsourced knowledge based and fact checking FTW :) EDIT2: original Nest outdoor cameras had a magnetic attach option -- even easier than the sticker/epoxy/etc path I mentioned.

Apocryphon 9y ago

The day after August made a product launch too, interesting

asdfasdfasd333 9y ago

can't someone just rip this off your door? yoink!

ceejayoz 9y ago
IIRC, the Nest cam streams to their cloud service, so you'd have a nice little video of someone committing that crime.

wavefunction 9y ago

Is a security cam really the best deterrent? I figure my two pitbulls would beat out a security cam on their own merits, though I'd preferably combine the two.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
Aren't home security dogs vulnerable to the "drop a piece of fresh, juicy meat on the ground" attack?
- Spooks 9y ago
  true! but the time delay of a dog eating meat is random. I would think most dogs can finish some meat before the attacker can unmount a tv, and some dogs would prefer to...play.. with an intruder over food.
  - bduerst 9y ago
    So then you just switch to the tug-o-war chew toy attack.
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  Security cameras are vulnerable to the "wear a mask" attack. This is a lot easier than carrying meat around with you and more likely to be successful.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
ceejayoz 9y ago
What if you go on vacation for a week? What if you don't like dogs, or your dog is super-friendly (like my old Newfoundland was)?
ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
Of course your dogs are better but its not helping the world to advertise their security benefits. 1. The cost of Dog Food + Care makes them much more expensive than almost any security system. 2. Here in Las Vegas more than half the dogs in our shelter are Pit Bulls. Almost all were purchased by people who wanted a "security dog" more than a pet. If the deciding factor for you to buy an animal is the security benefit, ultimately you will not be happy with that decision. And neither will the animal.

snow_mac 9y ago

Or you can spend $30, get this indoor camera: https://www.amazon.com/Wansview-Wireless-Security-Surveillance-Monitor/dp/B01JGBIFGO/ https://www.amazon.com/Wansview-Wireless-Security-Surveillan... Or spend $42 and get it's outdoor parent: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J0V6BWA/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J0V6BWA/

3pt14159 9y ago
I bought one of those shitty $30 ones. They don't work. They freeze and then you have to reset them like twice a week. I'd much rather have something made by a company like Nest that I know won't get knocked out.
- KGIII 9y ago
  Nest has a history of shutting down product lines and rendering them unusable. One of which was just 49 days old at the time, as I recall. Revolv was the product line, though there may be more.
- camus2 9y ago
  You mean buying something that Nest will "brick" eventually when they shut down the servers?

mattferderer 9y ago

For simple cameras, I'm a fan of the Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I CCTV POE 3MP Bullet IP HD Security Network Camera, 4mm camera for 1/3 of the price. They've done well in below -20F degree weather. Also another vote for Blue Iris. It's not the most user friendly software but it's awesome for the price. It can be tricky to get configured just right though... I would love to hear if anyone has any recommendations for getting Blue Iris to do some of the features of this camera, such as compare face images against a Google Photos API? I would also be curious to know if the cameras that move & try to auto focus are actually better. That seems like a potential plus but I could see wind blowing trees or a squirrel running causing the camera to focus on the wrong things. Maybe the Nest is smarter & only goes for certain objects that it can recognize... Motion sensor recording is kind of a pain to get right on my Blue Iris. Windy trees & spiders cause me to get a lot more video than necessary.

JoblessWonder 9y ago
Just be wary of Amazon vendors. I purchased a camera fulfilled through Amazon and it was a fake. Returning/Exchanging was simple but the difference in the label was clear when viewed side by side.
- post_break 9y ago
  Not only that, but some companies offer 0 warranty when purchased through Amazon or BH. You have to buy through a distributor who will only warranty it if you have them install it. Like ACTI.
- ad_hominem 9y ago
  I always hear people recommend Hikvision cameras but then I wonder where they buy them from, because it seems there is a lot of this counterfeiting you mention going on. Hikvision even has a page about it.[1] Makes me wonder how many folks have knockoffs and they're not even aware of it. I almost bought one from B&H Photo, but even they're not on the authorized partner list.[2] [1]: http://www.hikvision.com/us/about_10677.html http://www.hikvision.com/us/about_10677.html [2]: http://www.hikvision.com/us/distributionPartner.aspx?stat=1&c_kind=43&c_kind2=45&c_kind3=56 http://www.hikvision.com/us/distributionPartner.aspx?stat=1&...

toufka 9y ago

Does it work off-cloud? Can I firewall it entirely behind my own LAN? If so, sold. I've spent so much time screwing around with generic Chinese hardware that's, well, sometimes great (and sometimes truly worthless). Most generic brands (that exist for 6 months at a time) have software/firmware that leaves much to be desired, and is sometimes outright broken, but at least more often than not at least implement (most) of an open-source IP-cam standard (unlike the fancy expensive cameras). But I have no interest in trading any sort of even theoretical access to video of my home for a fancy web interface: http://shodan.io/ http://shodan.io/

bitwize 9y ago
It's a Nest. Remember their thermostat? The interclouds went down and people lost heat.
- kodt 9y ago
  Have they fixed this issue yet? My neighbor with a Nest was just complaining that her house was so hot because the internet was down and the AC turned off.
  - olyjohn 9y ago
    Mine works fine without internet. You just can't control it remotely. People probably don't realize that the app doesn't connect across your home network. It will complain there's no internet connection, but you can still twist it and set the temp manually.
ryandrake 9y ago
Yea, cloud-only was the deal-breaker for me for Dropcam (now Nest). It just seems so silly and wasteful. You have a camera on your home LAN, uploading video out to a server somewhere, just so you can... download the video back to your home LAN for viewing??? WTF? Why can't I even have the option to operate it LAN-only? Just seems like a bizarre limitation from a product point of view. Obviously their business model depends on upwelling you cloud services.

bitwize 9y ago

Great. Now burglars will cut your internet connection to the outside, then rob your place.

manarth 9y ago
burglars will cut your internet connection to the outside How, exactly? OK, so the question is a little facetious, but most burglars won't know (or even know to consider) that they should cut a particular cable before breaking in. In many installations, that cable won't necessarily be visible/reachable: want to climb a telephone pole to cut what's hopefully an ADSL cable and not a mains electricity cable? Without anyone noticing you? Some users may also use a backup 3G/4G data connection, hook the alarm up to a UPS, and in some cases of monitored alarm systems, a data outage is in itself an alertable/respondable alarm. Your degree (and expenditure) of defense will very much depend on your perceived threat profile, but for the most part, a burglar cutting your internet connection isn't high on the threat list.

danielvinson 9y ago

I'm really having a hard time understanding what their target market is here. Most home users aren't going to pay full retail for cameras, hire a professional installer to put 1-4 cameras outside, then pay for cloud storage... or at least not without a huge amount of Support effort. Given their feature list, they aren't going to be able to compete with the business/enterprise market due to both having worse features AND being more expensive. (shameless plug: I work for a company making enterprise IP cameras, and both our cloud storage AND cameras are cheaper, while having way more features)

davidcollantes 9y ago
Where is the plug?
- jtraffic 9y ago
  Not the OP, but checking his HN profile turns this up: https://viaas.com/ https://viaas.com/
SomeHacker44 9y ago
I was very interested in seeing what made your cameras and plans cheaper... but was disappointed. VIAAS seems to charge $479/year for 30 days of 1080p video and $399 for the camera. I don't use Nest's new camera but I have two of their indoor cameras elsewhere, for which I pay $150/year for the first camera and $100/year for the second (I think) for 30 days video. They also have a $50/year plan for 7 days of video. It also sends me e-mail and APNS alerts when it senses motion or people. So, I don't really see how your parenthetical assertion is true - despite really wishing it were true. I have evaluated and intend to use a UniFi camera system at my home when I can get around to running the PoE wires.
- danielvinson 9y ago
  I'm an engineer, so I'm not the best at explaining how pricing works for larger companies, but most customers do not pay msrp. Our 30-day plan is $20/month msrp whereas Nest is $30/month. (Your Nest pricing is not current - you're probably grandfathered on that rate) Our main market is businesses with multiple locations who need role-based access and/or LDAP integration for cameras with cloud storage.

chrissnell 9y ago

I used to live in Tacoma, WA, which had a lot of petty crime. My neighbor was a cop and he told us that the biggest problem with security cameras was that they didn't capture faces and so the videos were useless to police and prosecutors. People typically place them up high and the burglars wear hoodies. He recommended putting them down low and hiding them, like in a bushy potted plant on your doorstep, in bushes, a hole in a fence, etc. I don't get the point of expensive, tamper-resistant cameras for home use. I'd rather have more cameras.

pfarnsworth 9y ago
I find the biggest problem is that even if you have a picture of the person's face, the cops really, really don't give a shit. There was talk about someone stealing packages from someone's front porch on NextDoor in my neighbourhood, and the cops told them to contact the Post Office General. The Post Office General told them to contact the cops. Literally no one cares, especially the cops.
traviswingo 9y ago
Also, even if the camera captures a face, most local police departments won't be able to do anything with that image except put up "wanted posters" for a while. They don't necessarily have the authority/luxury to run it through a facial recognition system to find a stolen tv.
- monocasa 9y ago
  Even without the need for a facial recognition system, they rarely care. I've sent them footage, along with the name of the guy who's face it was and they did fuck all. The guy's in jail now though a few years later for beating his wife.
  - SomeHacker44 9y ago
    This is true. I had video of someone opening my mailbox, rifling through the mail, and stealing a check. Neither the NYPD nor the USPS gave a damn, despite this being a federal crime. My neighbor did the same thing (not on good terms; allegedly looking for misdelivered mail) and again, no penalty despite having clear video of the crime. At least if he does anything else I can it out then and show his previous malfeasance.

rdtsc 9y ago

> The camera will cost $349 and is now available for pre-order in the U.S. and Canada. Well criminals don't have to break in, just swipe the $350 expensive toy and walk away.

crispyambulance 9y ago
Yes, security cams are good for peace of mind, but they're not as useful as one might assume. They're not going to stop an opportunistic crack-addled bottom-feeder from doing a "smash and grab" burglary. Good for insurance, however, and check up on old-folks.

tgtweak 9y ago

$349 - No thanks.

CaptSpify 9y ago

I was able to build my own security camera with an rpi: https://blog.thekyel.com/?anchor=motion https://blog.thekyel.com/?anchor=motion The motion software is not great, but it's nice to know that my data isn't being sent off to china or some other bullshit proprietary service. My next one will be an outdoor camera, and if I can get it to work with a converter (https://www.amazon.com/GE-54276-Polarized-Handy-Outlet/dp/B002DN6QX2 https://www.amazon.com/GE-54276-Polarized-Handy-Outlet/dp/B0...), I think that will take out almost all of the wiring work.

aluhut 9y ago
You may be interested in this: https://github.com/ccrisan/motioneyeos https://github.com/ccrisan/motioneyeos > motionEyeOS is a Linux distribution that turns your single board computer into a video surveillance system.
- 24gttghh 9y ago
  Yeahhh I know what I'm trying out this weekend. Thank you!

ProfessorLayton 9y ago

After a lot of consideration, and wanting to stay away from IOT horrors and complicated setup, I ended up just getting a game camera: - No wiring - Battery lasts up to a year depending on settings - Can be plugged into power - No internet, software, or 3rd party dependency - 10MP photos, HD video - One-time cost of $100 + $15 SD card I don't need to view photos or videos remotely, I only need evidence if something were to happen, so this is an acceptable solution for me, especially considering the one-time costs. Bonus: I also purchased an ADT sign + window stickers from ebay.

sjg007 9y ago
This is basically the best idea.
josefresco 9y ago
No one type of camera is going to cover every scenario. A combination of both is recommended. Traditional IP cameras (Foscam etc.) are a pain to setup, but the new generation of "dropcams" are super easy. Also, unless you hide the camera well, a thief can simply steal the camera, or disable it and remove the SD card.
- ProfessorLayton 9y ago
  I agree its not the perfect solution. But I have yet to find anything with a better price + feature/ease of setup ratio. A lock box for the game camera is $30 and can be painted to match its surroundings.
  - fillskills 9y ago
    Can you share what game camera you used? I am not familiar with that term
    - ProfessorLayton 9y ago
      https://www.amazon.com/Stealth-Cam-No-Glo-Camera-STC-G42NG/dp/B00HMN7H04/ref=sr_1_7?s=hunting-fishing&ie=UTF8&qid=1505929114&sr=1-7&keywords=game+camera https://www.amazon.com/Stealth-Cam-No-Glo-Camera-STC-G42NG/d...

fpgaminer 9y ago

I recently researched outdoor security cameras for our home and discovered that the the outdoor security camera market is a _complete_ mess. My requirements were, I thought, fairly simple. Good quality outdoor camera which uploaded motion off-site (cloud, FTP, whatever). Apparently, that doesn't exist. Most of the cameras fail the first requirement. Terrible video quality, tiny field of view, poor build quality that results in frequent failures, and/or bad track records with security bugs. Some do okay on the first mark, but fail on the second. It's beyond me why most security cameras don't have at least _some_ ability to upload motion off-site. I have an Amcrest indoor camera, really terrible, but at least it will automatically upload motion to an FTP server. But it seems none of their outdoor cameras upload motion; only still images. !? Hikvision cameras were frequently recommended as capable and good quality, but they were riddled with security bugs. Totally unacceptable for a _security_ camera. Nest, from the article, has good build quality, and AFAIK no serious security issues. But no normal American can actually use them, because for all intents and purposes they require ~2 Mbps of constant upload bandwidth per camera. Google being Google requires the cameras upload all footage, 24/7 to their servers. For decent quality, that means 2Mbps of bandwidth. There's really no other way to use the cameras without doing that constant upload. Most Americans don't have much upload bandwidth. I only have 10 Mbps egress, which means each camera eats 20% of my bandwidth. Totally useless. Not to mention uploading 24/7 live footage of your home to Google, and paying hundreds of dollars per year in subscription fees for the privilege. Cleverloop sells a system similar to Nest, but they they do all their machine learning motion detection and such locally. So you don't have to burn upload bandwidth, and you don't have privacy issues. Plus no subscription fees. But their cameras are unreliable, 720p, limited FoV, and not standards compliant so you can't use them outside of Cleverloop's system. There was another system, who's name I forgot, which was all around good and met all the requirements ... except that apparently all the cameras have a bug where they often delay recording after motion detection for 5 seconds or so. Wow... All the other systems fall into either poor quality, buggy software, security issues, etc, etc. Basically, for the average consumer there are _no_ good options. I'm an engineer so I have the advantage of getting my hands dirty customizing things but most people don't have that option. Most people need a system that just works. It's totally crazy that such a thing doesn't exist. And personally, I'd rather not spend my time building a custom camera system. I, too, want something that just works. Well, after days of research the solution I landed on: I bought some plain ole PoE cameras from Costco. They have good specs (4MP, 90 FoV) and I trust Costco to vet for quality. Still fairly cheap (~$150 per camera). I bought an old small form factor Dell, Core i5, 2TB storage for $250 to act as the local recording station. I'll slap some software on there, ZoneMinder or Blue Iris or something, and hopefully get it to detect motion and upload those clips to the cloud. The cameras will also automatically upload snapshots over FTP (seriously why can't they just upload video!?) as at least a redundant system. I'm just aghast at how difficult and cruddy all of this is.

ddoran 9y ago

Hmmm, strange headline as Nest launched an outdoor security camera last year. This "IQ" model is a new version with higher definition picture and person-recognizing features. The original is still available.

pfarnsworth 9y ago

I have a few Nest Cameras. They are awesome, because the killer feature is the person-detection feature. It's very, very good and unlike other cameras or software packages like Blue Iris (which I bought), the person-detection and machine-learning stuff is fantastic and actually useful. I get almost zero false positives from shadows, etc. I have gone through the entire gambit, having bought Arlo, Nest, Foscam, and trying Blue Iris, etc and can definitively say that Nest is the easiest and most reliable outdoor camera. That said, I'm not going to buy this trumped up version of the camera mainly because I don't know what it buys me over the currect camera. The fact this has made the front page is kind of weird to me.

ben174 9y ago
Hmm, I constantly get false person alerts when two of my tiny yorkies are in frame at the same time. Must see the eyes from one, and the hips from another? Not sure. It's not super annoying though, I enjoy getting alerted a few times a day with a picture of my pups.

inertial 9y ago

D-link makes reasonable wifi cameras that can be used for home security and they double as baby monitors. You can buy 5-7 of them for the price of a single Nest camera. They have motion/sound detection (lot can be improved though). Mobile app is slow but works ok. E-mail alerts with stills/videos are useful when you are away from home.

bungie4 9y ago

I work for a large alarm monitoring service. For years, I've been sending management notifications of new entries and updates in the 'personal monitoring' space. Its actually humorous to see these old school guys who have enjoyed having a low churn subscription service cash cow for decades, be slowly disrupted. Total denial at every turn LOL. Why would anybody want to spend less than a 1/3rd the hardware cost, no installation cost, can be moved when you moved, and no monthly monitoring fee. They just don't get it. I sent them links to Nests product announcements today. It'll be interesting to see their response.

rhizome 9y ago
One of my oldest friends now runs his dad's small alarm manufacturer and he is 100% not interested in any new sensors or applications, at least when I bring them up. Their main goal appears to be stability and maintaining distribution to -- and the happiness of -- their installer customers. It's one of the most 1970s "independent auto parts store" mentalities I've come across in any business.
moonka 9y ago
Biggest reason I went with a Simplisafe system a few years ago. They have a subscription, but it's got no contract, and can be installed in about 30 minutes without leaving any permanent traces. The ideas of permanent installs and a contract were a big turnoff, especially since I had spent time removing the old defunct system that was installed but couldn't be reactivated by any of the companies I contacted.

linsomniac 9y ago

I was hopeful about this to replace my Ubiquiti cameras, but I really want something that is going to be PoE. Nest really seems to be all about WiFi, so I shouldn't be surprised, but am I the only one that doesn't want cameras on WiFi? I put up some Ubiquiti cameras last year, we live on a pretty quiet street but we had some kids pulling shenanigans (a car window was shot out with a BB gun, our Little Free Library bench was drug out into the street, change being stolen from cars). Since the cameras, nothing has happened, so that's a plus. But the Ubiquity recorder device makes the system nearly unusable. For some reason, recordings usually stop while there is still motion going on, so I end up with a lot of little 15-30 second videos that show only the start of whatever is going on. I've fiddled with it a lot and had no luck.

SomeHacker44 9y ago
This is disappointing to read. I just bought an outdoor Ubiquiti camera and their little VCR-cassette sized device and in my indoor evaluations it worked very nicely. I was going to put it up outdoors, but maybe I should just skip that plan and go with a traditional Nest. The indoor ones I have work very well, despite being on WiFi. I do have a solid WiFi at home, though, with two Ubiquiti AP-AC-HDs, unfortunately stuck to a DOCSIS 3.0 modem with only 20Mbps upstream (despite 300Mbps down).
- linsomniac 9y ago
  I'd love to hear if anyone has different experience. I also did a small evaluation before I started pulling shielded Cat-5 for the cameras, but it really wasn't until I ran for weeks or months that I had problems. I really should contact support and see what they say. We have WiFi problems sometimes, it just seems like I'll have fewer problems if I run wired. At work we have a Nest and it seems to be pretty good, though it's a much more consumer level thing. Which probably is good.
- benjohnson 9y ago
  My opinion: We install Unifi camera systems for a living - the crazy amount tiny little files and MongoDB basically require that the Unifi Video Controller have an SSD for reliable usage - that precludes the Unifi branded Unifi Controller that has a spinning drive. Our recommendation: A Intel (Intel Brand) Atom NUC with an SSD and 8GB of RAM. Installing Linux and the Unifi server on it takes about 20 minutes and you're left with a more manageable machine. I would also admit that the Unifi Video Controller hasn't been rock-solid until about a year ago - current releases now go forever without issue.

post_break 9y ago

I have a regular nest camera inside and another camera that does pan and tilt. The damn nest camera always thinks my cat is a person. Drives me mad.

gist 9y ago

> To find this out, the company actually brought in professional burglars and talked to them about their “work” experience. Ones that got caught.

gist 9y ago

> And with its built-in speaker, the IQ Outdoor does, of course, allow you to talk directly to those random people on your driveway. Note that this may very well violate certain state wiretap laws that require two party consent.

criddell 9y ago
How is it any different from an intercom system?
- gist 9y ago
  An intercom in theory makes a sound when it is listening in or starts to work when the party on the other end presses a button. See this with regard to evesdropping: "New York makes it a crime to record to record or eavesdrop on an in-person or telephone conversation unless one party to the conversation consents. " http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/new-york-recording-law http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/new-york-recording-law Do I think anyone would be prosecuted? No but the way I read it it's a violation of the law.
  - jpindar 9y ago
    I hope that means deliberate eavesdropping. The street that runs right outside my window is frequently used by people walking home from the bars, and drunk people don't notice how loud they're talking. I've overheard some strange (and sometimes very personal) conversations.

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tryingagainbro 9y ago

KISS might work best for security cameras. If someone is breaking into your house, maybe you just need a battery powered camera in the hallway. Like game cameras, battery powered and takes pictures /videos of the perp. No power problems, no internet connectivity issues etc. That's all a camera does, evidence, after the fact, unless you're Scarface and monitors everything.

kenjackson 9y ago

This article is a bit weird in that it doesn't mention that Nest already has an outdoor camera that has the features of the indoor camera -- and this outdoor camera is $199 (like $150 on Amazon). https://store.nest.com/products/NC2100ES https://store.nest.com/products/NC2100ES This article doesn't really mention why I'd spend that much more money for what seems like a very similar camera to the outdoor one already on the market.

tehwebguy 9y ago
Yeah and the marketing beforehand made it pretty clear that they were introducing a product they don't already nearly offer.
- stevepaulo 9y ago
  We did. The Nest Secure alarm system is the all-new product area for us. The Nest Cam IQ Outdoor is an upgrade over the Nest Cam Outdoor.
  - kenjackson 9y ago
    I haven't seen the marketing, but the story didn't make it clear. Another poster noted the 4k and face detection, which makes sense as a differentiator. But uploading 4k from multiple cameras... isn't that going to be a problem for most home users?
    - dgacmu 9y ago
      4K sensor, uploads 1080p. 4K is used to do high-quality digital zoom (with some tricks like zooming in on person while simultaneously capturing the wide-field view).
      - kenjackson 9y ago
        Ok. That makes sense.
  - deleted 9y ago

sjg007 9y ago

Here's an app idea.. scan your social network find the perp.

sixothree 9y ago

The creep and ick factor for this is my barrier.

sixothree 9y ago
Apparently it's wrong for me to feel icky with google monitoring who comes and goes from my house.

exhilaration 9y ago

As Nest GM of security products Michele Turner noted during an event in San Francisco today, the number one way that burglars break into a house is simply through an unlocked door. But the most important thing that deters them is a security camera. Interesting, I've read research that says the opposite - also based on interviews with convicted burglars. From "Protecting the Home: Exploring the Roles of Technology and Citizen Activism from a Burglar's Perspective": Only two participants said they were deterred by cameras. The other thirteen participants stated that cameras did not concern them because they believed that most cameras were not constantly monitored, especially police cameras. Al- though a camera played a role in one participant’s capture (P4), others believed that most cameras did not have a high enough resolution for them to be identified. P12 was the only one to describe how he disabled cameras, saying “I know how to disable [cameras]. I’d spray it and stand on the garbage and go through the window.” Former burglars generally thought cameras did not increase their risk of being caught, which is consistent with prior work [15].

dawnerd 9y ago
At my old house I used to have a ton of amazon box thieves, even when I was at home downstairs. Put in some commercial grade dome cameras and crime stopped very fast. I’d see people walk up in the video, see the camera and just kinda walk away. I think what you’ve pasted is more for businesses where thieves know there’s high value goods or cash. In a home it’s more smash and grab - whatever they can get quickly. End of the day though an alarm system isn’t going to stop anyone determined to get in.
problems 9y ago
You're talking about both what burglars say they do and what affects the risk of being caught. Both of which have no impact on how burglars actually behave in the field. They may report the most ego-boosting thing they want to, but behave very differently. A better way is to simply compare crime rates in areas with CCTV to those without. Studies like this one: https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/surveillance-cameras-and-crime https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-... That shows when CCTV is used, large, measurable drops in crime rate occurred in all circumstances tested.

NumberCruncher 9y ago

>> the number one way that burglars break into a house is simply through an unlocked door Is this a statement about criminaity or about stupidity of home owners. As a Europian it is hard to make a difference...

Shivetya 9y ago

What I want is an internal security camera that is smart enough to detect when someone is in distress. something that can record patterns and note deviations. this is all in the idea of monitoring the elderly. something that is simple to setup, where a handful of cameras and such don't break the bank all to give elderly relatives freedom and security

iak8god 9y ago

gumby 9y ago

I’m waiting for the “cheap and cheerful” version that runs pictures through your Facebook account for face identification. It will be interesting to see what happens.