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> Thus, this "girl" wasn't a girl at all. Biologically and scientifically speaking, he was a boy with an undeveloped penis. The thing is, many of these young p

> Thus, this "girl" wasn't a girl at all. Biologically and scientifically speaking, he was a boy with an undeveloped penis. The thing is, many of these young people had a strong sensation of being a "boy" despite societal pressure otherwise. This notion of an internal representation of gender identity is backed by science, and this isn't even the only example. So there is no argument here that these people are anything but boys with a different developmental path. But is suspect most could have told you that, despite what a non-invasive examination of their body would tell a biological essential-ists. > Where we differ with leftists is how to view the transgender phenomenon. Yeah, conservatives want to make it illegal or at least economically infeasible to be transgender. The irony here being that this type of developmental path would rock many conservatives in America to their very core if it happened in their family.

judah 9y ago
>> "This notion of an internal representation of gender identity is backed by science" My claim, backed by science, is that this child was a biological male: he had male hormones and male chromosomes. His delayed development didn't change that scientific reality.
- KirinDave 9y ago
  > My claim, backed by science, is that this child was a biological male: This is actually a nice way to reinforce my prior statement, so thanks. You're claiming someone was "biologically male" but hey that person didn't even express a penis until age 7-12. They're not even really intersex people, it's just the traditional definition of "biologically male" is comically incapable of dealing with this. What's more, before that change most (there is other documentation of this) of the people you would have lectured about being biologically female felt a very strong affinity to the male identity. By happy coincidence, their hormonal cycle gifted them with anatomy they felt more comfortable with. > he had male hormones and male chromosomes Well, he specifically lacked some hormones, but... Look, trans advocates for the most part don't disagree that a trans man and a person born to the traditional definition of men are exactly the same. They're obviously not precisely the same. What trans people want is an opportunity to be trans people without violence, discrimination, and fearmongering. Trans activists tend to object to the biological essentialism argument not because it is founded on an observation of scientific facts about DNA (which, btw, a lot of people get wrong). They object to it because it's often used to justify acts of violence or discrimination by appealing to defending a biological norm that needs no guardians.

judah 9y ago

>> "This notion of an internal representation of gender identity is backed by science" My claim, backed by science, is that this child was a biological male: he had male hormones and male chromosomes. His delayed development didn't change that scientific reality.

KirinDave 9y ago
> My claim, backed by science, is that this child was a biological male: This is actually a nice way to reinforce my prior statement, so thanks. You're claiming someone was "biologically male" but hey that person didn't even express a penis until age 7-12. They're not even really intersex people, it's just the traditional definition of "biologically male" is comically incapable of dealing with this. What's more, before that change most (there is other documentation of this) of the people you would have lectured about being biologically female felt a very strong affinity to the male identity. By happy coincidence, their hormonal cycle gifted them with anatomy they felt more comfortable with. > he had male hormones and male chromosomes Well, he specifically lacked some hormones, but... Look, trans advocates for the most part don't disagree that a trans man and a person born to the traditional definition of men are exactly the same. They're obviously not precisely the same. What trans people want is an opportunity to be trans people without violence, discrimination, and fearmongering. Trans activists tend to object to the biological essentialism argument not because it is founded on an observation of scientific facts about DNA (which, btw, a lot of people get wrong). They object to it because it's often used to justify acts of violence or discrimination by appealing to defending a biological norm that needs no guardians.