4 ms·

Something in this article really jumped out at me: "...plus only 16.9 percent of Atlanta households have no vehicle..." Really? "Only" 16.9%? If I told a prod

by sulam 9y ago

Something in this article really jumped out at me: "...plus only 16.9 percent of Atlanta households have no vehicle..." Really? "Only" 16.9%? If I told a product manager that "only" 17% of people use iOS 9, so we don't need to support it, I'd get laughed out of the meeting.

pavel_lishin 9y ago
Sure, but if your product manager had a long history of systematic racism, and iOS 9 was only used by minorities and the poor, he might tell you to focus your efforts on the nicer parts of town... err, different operating systems.
- sol_remmy 9y ago
  Its awful seeing comments like yours that are designed to turn Americans against each other. Yes, governments tend to cater towards groups that pay more into the system. Its not about race, its only about income.
  - monocasa 9y ago
    No, having grown up in Atlanta, it is about race. They still unironically call MARTA (the public transit in Atlanta) "Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta". They also won't be connecting the new Braves stadium to MARTA because they don't want "a certain type of person". EDIT: Wanted to add that race plays a role in what income you receive. An identical resume with the first name changed from Tyrone to Brad receives three times as many callbacks. http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873.pdf http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873.pdf In fact, a white man with a felony conviction is _still_ more likely to receive a callback than a black man with no record. http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/pager/files/pager-blacksandex-cons.pdf http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/pager/files/pager-blacksand...
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    First point: Why is it bad when I (allegedly) turn Americans against each other based on race, while perfectly fine for you to do so based on income? Second point: the reason why many low-income people also tend to be minorities isn't because we live in an unlikely universe where coin flips keep coming up heads - it's due to a diligent effort on the parts of many people to basically keep black people down in the gutter. It's disingenuous to say "oh, it's not about race, it's just about income" in this situation.
  - kizer 9y ago
    Have you been in the southern United States?
  - crooked-v 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
monocasa 9y ago
That 16.9% tend to be poor and black, and therefore don't matter. Racism is still alive and well in the greater Atlanta area. Hence why the new Braves stadium isn't getting Marta. Cobb County views Marta as "Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta", and previously both voted down public transit and made a 10 foot wide city on the border called "Chattahoochee Plantation" to protect against the perceived encroachment.
- durkie 9y ago
  i'm also kind of surprised it's as high as 16.9%. Not having a vehicle in Atlanta is horrible unless the stars really align with your work/life situation.
nkoren 9y ago
It's worse than that. Even in the households with vehicles, there will be members who are unable to use them due to age or disability. So at the very least they will be dependent on another family member for basic getting-around-town capabilities. Together with households that are too poor to afford a vehicle, about 31% of the US population doesn't have access to a car. (Note that is inclusive of non-driving children -- but IMHO they should be able to use the city, too.) This is why public transport and good urban design are so frigging important. Imagine if some other demographic of this size were forced to be dependent on others for going shopping, going to the doctor's, etc. It would be an outrage, because, in truth, it is a outrage.
ecshafer 9y ago
As someone that elected to get rid of their vehicle, and lives in a pedestrian friendly city, when I go to the suburbs to visit friends it can be tough. There are many areas where the choice is walking on the side of the road, in dangerous proximity to cars, or walking in a ditch or through trees. If any area is within a mile of a train or bus station it should easily be walkable, but many are not. Crossing streets can mean running through traffic of mile long detours. Many city and the suburbs at Large in the United States have a failure of urban planning and people friendly travel at a disastrous level. The reasons for this are multi tiered, but this is something that should be fixed.
- jtuente 9y ago
  It's not so much a failure of urban planning as a difference in priorities. It's something that you think should be fixed because you're used to a different environment and have different priorities. Suburbs weren't designed for being walkable. I hate that this article "targets" the millenials like it does, but I do like the write-up about the change of priorities that has taken place [0]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/15/sunday-review/future-suburb-millennials.html?mcubz=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/15/sunday-review/future-subu...

by sulam 9y ago

pavel_lishin 9y ago

Sure, but if your product manager had a long history of systematic racism, and iOS 9 was only used by minorities and the poor, he might tell you to focus your efforts on the nicer parts of town... err, different operating systems.

sol_remmy 9y ago
Its awful seeing comments like yours that are designed to turn Americans against each other. Yes, governments tend to cater towards groups that pay more into the system. Its not about race, its only about income.
- monocasa 9y ago
  No, having grown up in Atlanta, it is about race. They still unironically call MARTA (the public transit in Atlanta) "Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta". They also won't be connecting the new Braves stadium to MARTA because they don't want "a certain type of person". EDIT: Wanted to add that race plays a role in what income you receive. An identical resume with the first name changed from Tyrone to Brad receives three times as many callbacks. http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873.pdf http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873.pdf In fact, a white man with a felony conviction is _still_ more likely to receive a callback than a black man with no record. http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/pager/files/pager-blacksandex-cons.pdf http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/pager/files/pager-blacksand...
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  First point: Why is it bad when I (allegedly) turn Americans against each other based on race, while perfectly fine for you to do so based on income? Second point: the reason why many low-income people also tend to be minorities isn't because we live in an unlikely universe where coin flips keep coming up heads - it's due to a diligent effort on the parts of many people to basically keep black people down in the gutter. It's disingenuous to say "oh, it's not about race, it's just about income" in this situation.
- kizer 9y ago
  Have you been in the southern United States?
- crooked-v 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

monocasa 9y ago

That 16.9% tend to be poor and black, and therefore don't matter. Racism is still alive and well in the greater Atlanta area. Hence why the new Braves stadium isn't getting Marta. Cobb County views Marta as "Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta", and previously both voted down public transit and made a 10 foot wide city on the border called "Chattahoochee Plantation" to protect against the perceived encroachment.

durkie 9y ago
i'm also kind of surprised it's as high as 16.9%. Not having a vehicle in Atlanta is horrible unless the stars really align with your work/life situation.

nkoren 9y ago

It's worse than that. Even in the households with vehicles, there will be members who are unable to use them due to age or disability. So at the very least they will be dependent on another family member for basic getting-around-town capabilities. Together with households that are too poor to afford a vehicle, about 31% of the US population doesn't have access to a car. (Note that is inclusive of non-driving children -- but IMHO they should be able to use the city, too.) This is why public transport and good urban design are so frigging important. Imagine if some other demographic of this size were forced to be dependent on others for going shopping, going to the doctor's, etc. It would be an outrage, because, in truth, it is a outrage.

ecshafer 9y ago

As someone that elected to get rid of their vehicle, and lives in a pedestrian friendly city, when I go to the suburbs to visit friends it can be tough. There are many areas where the choice is walking on the side of the road, in dangerous proximity to cars, or walking in a ditch or through trees. If any area is within a mile of a train or bus station it should easily be walkable, but many are not. Crossing streets can mean running through traffic of mile long detours. Many city and the suburbs at Large in the United States have a failure of urban planning and people friendly travel at a disastrous level. The reasons for this are multi tiered, but this is something that should be fixed.

jtuente 9y ago
It's not so much a failure of urban planning as a difference in priorities. It's something that you think should be fixed because you're used to a different environment and have different priorities. Suburbs weren't designed for being walkable. I hate that this article "targets" the millenials like it does, but I do like the write-up about the change of priorities that has taken place [0]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/15/sunday-review/future-suburb-millennials.html?mcubz=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/15/sunday-review/future-subu...