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Intelligence (with a healthy dose of diligence) plays a big part in success in college. If you don't think so, then you're either not challenging yourself enoug

by vecter 16y ago

Intelligence (with a healthy dose of diligence) plays a big part in success in college. If you don't think so, then you're either not challenging yourself enough, or your college is not challenging enough. Why do so many people on HN love to disparage school? Did they have horrible experiences? I had an incredible experience and learned an amazing amount of stuff. I almost never felt like I had to "put up with shit" to get a degree, or anything along those lines. Maybe I'm the exception, but I doubt that's the case.

gojomo 16y ago
Schools vary so much that if you recount an extraordinary experience, either positive or negative, you should give a hint of where you attended. What country/jurisdiction? How organized/funded? What size?
- vecter 16y ago
  I went to a public high school on long island (I suppose we had good funding?), then to a private college w/1000 students per class. Thinking about your post now, I'm curious where people who had bad experiences went to school. Was it the entire school system, or a particular teacher or grade that made you hate it?
DaniFong 16y ago
My teacher in seventh grade was a tenured paranoid schizophrenic who had it in for me as soon as I corrected her on the first day of class. This was combined with an altogether toxic social environment. For me, school seems pointless -- a failed exercise in education cited within in a social disaster zone. I'm glad I got out. But the general inefficiency of the educational process has spread as memes to most corners of western society, so I am never truly away.
- vecter 16y ago
  Can you describe toxic? I'm not trying to be a jerk, just genuinely curious. I remember social life in junior high and high school as being pretty stressful, and there were bullies (a handful I suppose), but I wouldn't describe it as toxic. I wasn't particularly popular or unpopular, just kind of did my thing with some like-minded friends. Kept to my academic clubs, played some sports here or there. It sounds like the social aspect was what really killed it for you, not necessarily the education you got.
  - thaumaturgy 16y ago
    You asked this 3 days ago, so probably you'll never see my reply. But: I read, and understood most of, Cosmos while I was in elementary school. For me, the educational process of school certainly was toxic. I can see that it works for plenty of other people, but for many -- some like me -- it is extremely adversarial. It took me years after graduation to relearn learning, and re-discover focused curiosity, and to recall again how to intelligently consider the accepted notions that many other people have. To be more specific, public schools lack (among other things) any focus at all on critical thinking and problem-solving. There are simply not classes for those at most schools. At best, a few teachers try to work them in to their class here and there, but it's not taught the way that, say, mathematics is. Science classrooms are another specific example: they tend to concentrate on printed material and multimedia, and the few "experiments" that students do are little more than facades for re-confirming whatever thing is being taught that week. There is very little there to teach investigation, or to drive intellectual curiosity. I say this as someone that was fortunate enough to attend some of the best schools in the Bay Area at the time; I imagine that my experiences, mediocre and toxic as they were, were still quite a bit better than what the vast majority of students are exposed to. This is not to say that I didn't have some brilliant and dedicated teachers, however. I remember several of them quite fondly, all the time.
julius_geezer 16y ago
"Why do so many people on HN love to disparage school?" Probably because most are well up the scale on what society regards as intelligence, and in the course of 12 or 16 or more years of schooling ran across teachers who weren't, or were otherwise obnoxious. Lord knows I ran across a few classics. You were fortunate, I gather, in your college; if you had such a good time in your primary and secondary schooling, you were very fortunate. As to the general point, I am fascinated by the hard words that the learned find for the schools they attended. My best guess is that much of learning comes in short bursts, that this is necessarily the case, but that some of us infer that the whole experience could be at the peak level of intensity.
- vecter 16y ago
  I suppose a few bad teachers would suck, but I can't imagine two or three bad teachers ruining your entire view of the education system. In high school, you're enrolled in 6-8 classes a day. If over the course of 4 years, you run into 3 bad teachers, is it just that horrible? I don't know b/c I don't have that experience, but it just seems a little overblown. Perhaps other people can shed some light on this. In regards to learning coming in short bursts, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I feel like learning has been pretty consistent over time. On the point of people being intelligent, maybe that's a bit arrogant to think you're better than the system b/c you think you're smart. Are you really that smart? (By you, I don't mean you, the poster. I mean the people who rebel against school b/c they believe they're just too good for it). And if these people are so smart, why do they hate school? Wouldn't they be just rocking their classes with little effort and moving on with their lives?

by vecter 16y ago

gojomo 16y ago

Schools vary so much that if you recount an extraordinary experience, either positive or negative, you should give a hint of where you attended. What country/jurisdiction? How organized/funded? What size?

vecter 16y ago
I went to a public high school on long island (I suppose we had good funding?), then to a private college w/1000 students per class. Thinking about your post now, I'm curious where people who had bad experiences went to school. Was it the entire school system, or a particular teacher or grade that made you hate it?

DaniFong 16y ago

My teacher in seventh grade was a tenured paranoid schizophrenic who had it in for me as soon as I corrected her on the first day of class. This was combined with an altogether toxic social environment. For me, school seems pointless -- a failed exercise in education cited within in a social disaster zone. I'm glad I got out. But the general inefficiency of the educational process has spread as memes to most corners of western society, so I am never truly away.

vecter 16y ago
Can you describe toxic? I'm not trying to be a jerk, just genuinely curious. I remember social life in junior high and high school as being pretty stressful, and there were bullies (a handful I suppose), but I wouldn't describe it as toxic. I wasn't particularly popular or unpopular, just kind of did my thing with some like-minded friends. Kept to my academic clubs, played some sports here or there. It sounds like the social aspect was what really killed it for you, not necessarily the education you got.
- thaumaturgy 16y ago
  You asked this 3 days ago, so probably you'll never see my reply. But: I read, and understood most of, Cosmos while I was in elementary school. For me, the educational process of school certainly was toxic. I can see that it works for plenty of other people, but for many -- some like me -- it is extremely adversarial. It took me years after graduation to relearn learning, and re-discover focused curiosity, and to recall again how to intelligently consider the accepted notions that many other people have. To be more specific, public schools lack (among other things) any focus at all on critical thinking and problem-solving. There are simply not classes for those at most schools. At best, a few teachers try to work them in to their class here and there, but it's not taught the way that, say, mathematics is. Science classrooms are another specific example: they tend to concentrate on printed material and multimedia, and the few "experiments" that students do are little more than facades for re-confirming whatever thing is being taught that week. There is very little there to teach investigation, or to drive intellectual curiosity. I say this as someone that was fortunate enough to attend some of the best schools in the Bay Area at the time; I imagine that my experiences, mediocre and toxic as they were, were still quite a bit better than what the vast majority of students are exposed to. This is not to say that I didn't have some brilliant and dedicated teachers, however. I remember several of them quite fondly, all the time.

julius_geezer 16y ago

"Why do so many people on HN love to disparage school?" Probably because most are well up the scale on what society regards as intelligence, and in the course of 12 or 16 or more years of schooling ran across teachers who weren't, or were otherwise obnoxious. Lord knows I ran across a few classics. You were fortunate, I gather, in your college; if you had such a good time in your primary and secondary schooling, you were very fortunate. As to the general point, I am fascinated by the hard words that the learned find for the schools they attended. My best guess is that much of learning comes in short bursts, that this is necessarily the case, but that some of us infer that the whole experience could be at the peak level of intensity.

vecter 16y ago
I suppose a few bad teachers would suck, but I can't imagine two or three bad teachers ruining your entire view of the education system. In high school, you're enrolled in 6-8 classes a day. If over the course of 4 years, you run into 3 bad teachers, is it just that horrible? I don't know b/c I don't have that experience, but it just seems a little overblown. Perhaps other people can shed some light on this. In regards to learning coming in short bursts, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I feel like learning has been pretty consistent over time. On the point of people being intelligent, maybe that's a bit arrogant to think you're better than the system b/c you think you're smart. Are you really that smart? (By you, I don't mean you, the poster. I mean the people who rebel against school b/c they believe they're just too good for it). And if these people are so smart, why do they hate school? Wouldn't they be just rocking their classes with little effort and moving on with their lives?