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To people tempted by the Pixelbook, why not by a Macbook for that price? instead of getting a machine which OS basically amounts to a browser forcing you into g

by camus2 9y ago

To people tempted by the Pixelbook, why not by a Macbook for that price? instead of getting a machine which OS basically amounts to a browser forcing you into google cloud services? You're basically paying a premium to get data-mined... And MacOS runs Chrome so I don't see the big deal here.

neverminder 9y ago
"Linux inventor Linus Torvalds replaced Chrome OS on his Chromebook Pixel with Fedora 18, employing Red Hat engineer David Miller's work. Torvalds had praised the Pixel screen but not the operating system, which he felt was better suited to slower hardware." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook_Pixel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook_Pixel)
gangstead 9y ago
That's what I'm thinking. I've bought 2 Chromebooks, most recently I bought a 2013 Chromebook Pixel new-in-box in 2017. I don't know where it sat all those years but for $300 it was an amazing deal and I've come to appreciate the amazing build quality. When I first heard rumors of a new Chromebook Pixel the rumored price was $799. At that price it'd still be the top-of-line for Chromebooks - the nearest "premium" one would be a Samsung Chromebook Plus for $499 and my first was a $249 Asus Flip. But at $799 I wouldn't also have to consider whether I'd be better off getting a Macbook. I guess what I can infer from that is there is no way to make a premium build (strong metal body and hinges, keyboard that feels nice, good screen) for a lower price even with an OS that allows you to skimp on more of the internals (slower processor, less ram, less storage).
bubblethink 9y ago
You're paying a premium for good linux and coreboot support. A macbook isn't that unique, and quite a sink of money since it can't run any other OS too well. It certainly can't run linux, and windows isn't too good either. A good linux laptop that ships with coreboot is rare. You can also run windows on these things generally.
- criddell 9y ago
  What do you mean a Macbook can't run Linux? macOS is a Unix. As for Windows it works great in either a VM or dual boot. I know people that have bought a Mac because they can (legally) run more software than any other computer.
  - bubblethink 9y ago
    None of the macbooks made in the last couple of years or so can run linux. People are hacking/reverse engineering things here and there. It may eventually become usable, but it would likely be obsolete by then. Here's a good summary: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux Edit: Also the unix certification doesn't really mean anything as far as h/w support and free drivers go.
  - isr 9y ago
    Well, by the same token ChromeOS is a linux distro. And in dev mode, you get access to a bash shell, full root access, and a spare vt (so you can run xorg, etc). So you can install anything you like. Rendering your original complaint moot.
    - criddell 9y ago
      What token are you talking about? If I build an user land application on top of ChromeOS, can I directly call functions exposed by the Linux kernel in the standard way? If so, then ChromeOS may indeed be a Linux distro. macOS is a Unix because it's certified as such by The Open Group. It's built on top of the XNU kernel and is POSIX compliant. > Rendering your original complaint moot I had a complaint?
      - isr 9y ago
        > If I build an user land application on top of ChromeOS, can I directly call functions exposed by the Linux kernel in the standard way? If so, then ChromeOS may indeed be a Linux distro. Of course you can. There's no "may" about it. You seem rather unsure of what ChromeOS actually is. Its just a linux distro. In fact, its much closer to more mainstream linux distro's than more exotic linux variants like android. It has the linux kernel (duh!), but also glibc, gnu coreutils, bash - the whole shebang. In fact, the only thing (purposely) left out in standard mode is a terminal allowing you to run bash. In dev-mode, that is given, so you then have terminal access to run bash, and automatic root access. Nearly all linux pkgs will compile, install and run, "as is". In fact, there's even chromeos-specific package managers which cater to chromeos just as apt caters to debian, rpm to redhat, etc. And google themselves give you a bash script which restores portage and installs various precompiled ebuilds. Yes, ChromeOS is effectively a Gentoo Linux build. Last I checked, gentoo allows you to "directly call functions exposed by the Linux kernel in the standard way" (but I've only been running gentoo since 2002, so what do I know?) > certified as such by The Open Group That may have been relevant in the 80's, but for over a generation, linux and/or the gnu suite has been the de-facto standard for what "unix" really is. Which is why most of the official "I've paid the open group their fee so that they can stamp me as official" unix distro's/os's have, in fact, a linux binary emulation layer. Gnu-linux is basically the lingua-franca of the unix world. The only reason they never got this certification which some think is so important is ... because noone wanted to bother paying the subscription fee back in the 90's. Thats it. >> Rendering your original complaint moot > I had a complaint? Hmm, looking back at this sub-thread, I guess thats more applicable directly to 'camus2'. You were wading in on that side of the fence, which is why I hung my reply off of your comment. It pretty much applies to both of you. Basically, he was saying "why bother with a chromebook, mac is 'proper' unix, and so can run lots of unixy stuff, in addition to chrome. Chromebooks can't". Well, ChromeOS is also a proper unix, and can run lots (and lots, and lots) of unixy stuff, in addition to chrome - with the caveat that you have to put it into dev mode first.

by camus2 9y ago

neverminder 9y ago

"Linux inventor Linus Torvalds replaced Chrome OS on his Chromebook Pixel with Fedora 18, employing Red Hat engineer David Miller's work. Torvalds had praised the Pixel screen but not the operating system, which he felt was better suited to slower hardware." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook_Pixel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook_Pixel)

gangstead 9y ago

That's what I'm thinking. I've bought 2 Chromebooks, most recently I bought a 2013 Chromebook Pixel new-in-box in 2017. I don't know where it sat all those years but for $300 it was an amazing deal and I've come to appreciate the amazing build quality. When I first heard rumors of a new Chromebook Pixel the rumored price was $799. At that price it'd still be the top-of-line for Chromebooks - the nearest "premium" one would be a Samsung Chromebook Plus for $499 and my first was a $249 Asus Flip. But at $799 I wouldn't also have to consider whether I'd be better off getting a Macbook. I guess what I can infer from that is there is no way to make a premium build (strong metal body and hinges, keyboard that feels nice, good screen) for a lower price even with an OS that allows you to skimp on more of the internals (slower processor, less ram, less storage).

bubblethink 9y ago

You're paying a premium for good linux and coreboot support. A macbook isn't that unique, and quite a sink of money since it can't run any other OS too well. It certainly can't run linux, and windows isn't too good either. A good linux laptop that ships with coreboot is rare. You can also run windows on these things generally.

criddell 9y ago
What do you mean a Macbook can't run Linux? macOS is a Unix. As for Windows it works great in either a VM or dual boot. I know people that have bought a Mac because they can (legally) run more software than any other computer.
- bubblethink 9y ago
  None of the macbooks made in the last couple of years or so can run linux. People are hacking/reverse engineering things here and there. It may eventually become usable, but it would likely be obsolete by then. Here's a good summary: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux Edit: Also the unix certification doesn't really mean anything as far as h/w support and free drivers go.
- isr 9y ago
  Well, by the same token ChromeOS is a linux distro. And in dev mode, you get access to a bash shell, full root access, and a spare vt (so you can run xorg, etc). So you can install anything you like. Rendering your original complaint moot.
  - criddell 9y ago
    What token are you talking about? If I build an user land application on top of ChromeOS, can I directly call functions exposed by the Linux kernel in the standard way? If so, then ChromeOS may indeed be a Linux distro. macOS is a Unix because it's certified as such by The Open Group. It's built on top of the XNU kernel and is POSIX compliant. > Rendering your original complaint moot I had a complaint?
    - isr 9y ago
      > If I build an user land application on top of ChromeOS, can I directly call functions exposed by the Linux kernel in the standard way? If so, then ChromeOS may indeed be a Linux distro. Of course you can. There's no "may" about it. You seem rather unsure of what ChromeOS actually is. Its just a linux distro. In fact, its much closer to more mainstream linux distro's than more exotic linux variants like android. It has the linux kernel (duh!), but also glibc, gnu coreutils, bash - the whole shebang. In fact, the only thing (purposely) left out in standard mode is a terminal allowing you to run bash. In dev-mode, that is given, so you then have terminal access to run bash, and automatic root access. Nearly all linux pkgs will compile, install and run, "as is". In fact, there's even chromeos-specific package managers which cater to chromeos just as apt caters to debian, rpm to redhat, etc. And google themselves give you a bash script which restores portage and installs various precompiled ebuilds. Yes, ChromeOS is effectively a Gentoo Linux build. Last I checked, gentoo allows you to "directly call functions exposed by the Linux kernel in the standard way" (but I've only been running gentoo since 2002, so what do I know?) > certified as such by The Open Group That may have been relevant in the 80's, but for over a generation, linux and/or the gnu suite has been the de-facto standard for what "unix" really is. Which is why most of the official "I've paid the open group their fee so that they can stamp me as official" unix distro's/os's have, in fact, a linux binary emulation layer. Gnu-linux is basically the lingua-franca of the unix world. The only reason they never got this certification which some think is so important is ... because noone wanted to bother paying the subscription fee back in the 90's. Thats it. >> Rendering your original complaint moot > I had a complaint? Hmm, looking back at this sub-thread, I guess thats more applicable directly to 'camus2'. You were wading in on that side of the fence, which is why I hung my reply off of your comment. It pretty much applies to both of you. Basically, he was saying "why bother with a chromebook, mac is 'proper' unix, and so can run lots of unixy stuff, in addition to chrome. Chromebooks can't". Well, ChromeOS is also a proper unix, and can run lots (and lots, and lots) of unixy stuff, in addition to chrome - with the caveat that you have to put it into dev mode first.