3 ms·

The elephant in the room is that the main parties in the Spanish goverment are using this independence process as a smokescreen to hide all their wrongdoings.

The elephant in the room is that the main parties in the Spanish goverment are using this independence process as a smokescreen to hide all their wrongdoings. There have been plenty of scandals, but all are hidden because of this. Also there is a complete blockage to alter the constitution and there's no negotiation on their part to open the process and make it more inclusive. They are using Catalans as scapegoats in order to win votes in other regions, as they have always done. I'm seriously tired of being treated, by the Spanish press -guided by the main parties-, as an insolidary nutjob that doesn't conform to the rules. Specially when Catalonia is one of the most solidary regions (giving more to the state than we receive). But we are "guilty" of speaking another language, of thinking differently, of voting differently, of whatever shit they dare accuse us. I'm sick of it all. And I'm not into politics, so I cannot fathom how burned are the people that are into politics.

hectorlorenzo 9y ago
Ah, yes, I completely agree with you. I haven't been living in Spain for some time now, and every time I go back I'm horrified by the tension between Catalonia and the rest of Spain. It's like a mild Civil War all over again. The worst is the unspoken tension that this has created between me and my Spanish friends.
- notspanishflu 9y ago
  It is worse the tension between Catalans.
- victornomad 9y ago
  I agree with you. Im southern Spanish who lived and studied in Barcelona. Have lots of very good friends in Catalunya who somehow I'm loosing because of this situation. I'm quite sad :(
Oletros 9y ago
> The elephant in the room is that the main parties in the Spanish goverment are using this independence process as a smokescreen to hide all their wrongdoings. Don't forget PDECAT, for them it is also a smokescreen
notspanishflu 9y ago
"The elephant in the room is that the main parties in the Spanish goverment are using this independence process as a smokescreen to hide all their wrongdoings." That's some assumption, considering the main party promoting the secession had their party HQ confiscated for their corruption. "Also there is a complete blockage to alter the constitution" No, there isn't. There is a perfect legal form to do it. "Catalonia is one of the most solidary regions (giving more to the state than we receive)." No, it WAS. Now the rest of Spain is supporting Catalonia using the FLA ("Fondo de Liquidez Autonómica" or "Autonomous Liquidity Fund"). "I'm sick of it all." More sick are the majority of Catalans who don't want the secession.
- severino 9y ago
  > More sick are the majority of Catalans who don't want the secession. Nobody knows if they are a majority or not. At least, unless they can vote about it, of course. And please, don't give me polls.
- JaumeGreen 9y ago
  While in the process: Audiencia Nacional does not approve of confronting Spanish president with of the main conspirators detained for illegal funding of their party. [0] An Hacienda (taxes) expert finding clues about this illegal funding. [1] Ex president of Castilla la Mancha's regional goverment dies before testifying in a corruption case [2]. There have been lots of deaths of people about to testify in diferent corruption cases.[3] 75% of the money the goverment put to rescue the banks is now considered as lost.[4] "They report that there are 38% of severely dependent and large dependents without attending"[5] And some other things that are debatable (and some that are not. I'm not negating that the governing party in Catalonia has been corrupt too, if it were for me lots of current and past politicians should be in jail. > "Also there is a complete blockage to alter the constitution" > No, there isn't. There is a perfect legal form to do it. Yes, a way that is completely impossible right now. Specially because it depends on who has majority in the goverment, and those in power use FUD to keep being in power. >Now the rest of Spain is supporting Catalonia using the FLA ("Fondo de Liquidez Autonómica" or "Autonomous Liquidity Fund"). I had to search what FLA is. That is a credit line that can be used by regional goverments [6]. That means it has to be payed back. Catalonia is the region that most money brings to the table with 18.9%, more than even Madrid with 18.8% (2016)[7] But it's not he one with more investment (12.78% if you run the numbers)[8]. >More sick are the majority of Catalans who don't want the secession. I didn't want independence, but I now want it, thanks to the words and actions of centralist people and politics. If you are saying that the majority doesn't want it because in 11 september's parade there was only 1 milion people and there are 6.5 milion more that weren't there... that doesn't compute (I wasn't there either). [0]http://www.eldiario.es/politica/Audiencia-Nacional-Barcenas-Rajoy-Adade_0_683832278.html http://www.eldiario.es/politica/Audiencia-Nacional-Barcenas-... [1]http://www.publico.es/politica/gurtel-perito-hacienda-confirma-hubo-ingresos-barcenas.html http://www.publico.es/politica/gurtel-perito-hacienda-confir... [2]http://www.elmundo.es/espana/2017/09/07/59b0fab8ca47418b038b463b.html http://www.elmundo.es/espana/2017/09/07/59b0fab8ca47418b038b... [3]http://www.abc.es/espana/abci-muertes-y-suicidios-larga-lista-negra-corrupcion-espana-201707191435_noticia.html http://www.abc.es/espana/abci-muertes-y-suicidios-larga-list... [4]http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2017/09/07/59b1092e22601dad198b45a3.html http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2017/09/07/59b1092e22601dad19... [5]http://dependencia.es/denuncian-que-hay-un-38-de-dependientes-severos-y-grandes-dependientes-sin-atender/ http://dependencia.es/denuncian-que-hay-un-38-de-dependiente... [6]https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fons_de_Liquiditat_Auton%C3%B2mica https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fons_de_Liquiditat_Auton%C3%B2... [7]http://www.elnacional.cat/ca/economia/catalunya-economia-espanya_109375_102.html http://www.elnacional.cat/ca/economia/catalunya-economia-esp... [8]http://www.elmundo.es/economia/macroeconomia/2017/04/04/58e38216e5fdea71158b45e2.html http://www.elmundo.es/economia/macroeconomia/2017/04/04/58e3... EDIT: Sorry, I didn't (and don't) have time to search for links in English. They are all in Spanish but one, that it's in Catalan (but has Spanish and German translation). If there was any innacuracy in this post I'd rather have conversation than untold negativity.
gasull 9y ago
> The elephant in the room is that the main parties in the Spanish goverment are using this independence process as a smokescreen to hide all their wrongdoings. True, but at the same time, it was the Catalan Government who started the secession process, and they have plenty of corruption to hide too. And if they manage to become an independent country with their own judicial system, then they might get away with all the past corruption. Maybe that's the actual motivation.

hectorlorenzo 9y ago

Ah, yes, I completely agree with you. I haven't been living in Spain for some time now, and every time I go back I'm horrified by the tension between Catalonia and the rest of Spain. It's like a mild Civil War all over again. The worst is the unspoken tension that this has created between me and my Spanish friends.

notspanishflu 9y ago
It is worse the tension between Catalans.
victornomad 9y ago
I agree with you. Im southern Spanish who lived and studied in Barcelona. Have lots of very good friends in Catalunya who somehow I'm loosing because of this situation. I'm quite sad :(

Oletros 9y ago

> The elephant in the room is that the main parties in the Spanish goverment are using this independence process as a smokescreen to hide all their wrongdoings. Don't forget PDECAT, for them it is also a smokescreen

notspanishflu 9y ago

"The elephant in the room is that the main parties in the Spanish goverment are using this independence process as a smokescreen to hide all their wrongdoings." That's some assumption, considering the main party promoting the secession had their party HQ confiscated for their corruption. "Also there is a complete blockage to alter the constitution" No, there isn't. There is a perfect legal form to do it. "Catalonia is one of the most solidary regions (giving more to the state than we receive)." No, it WAS. Now the rest of Spain is supporting Catalonia using the FLA ("Fondo de Liquidez Autonómica" or "Autonomous Liquidity Fund"). "I'm sick of it all." More sick are the majority of Catalans who don't want the secession.

severino 9y ago
> More sick are the majority of Catalans who don't want the secession. Nobody knows if they are a majority or not. At least, unless they can vote about it, of course. And please, don't give me polls.
JaumeGreen 9y ago
While in the process: Audiencia Nacional does not approve of confronting Spanish president with of the main conspirators detained for illegal funding of their party. [0] An Hacienda (taxes) expert finding clues about this illegal funding. [1] Ex president of Castilla la Mancha's regional goverment dies before testifying in a corruption case [2]. There have been lots of deaths of people about to testify in diferent corruption cases.[3] 75% of the money the goverment put to rescue the banks is now considered as lost.[4] "They report that there are 38% of severely dependent and large dependents without attending"[5] And some other things that are debatable (and some that are not. I'm not negating that the governing party in Catalonia has been corrupt too, if it were for me lots of current and past politicians should be in jail. > "Also there is a complete blockage to alter the constitution" > No, there isn't. There is a perfect legal form to do it. Yes, a way that is completely impossible right now. Specially because it depends on who has majority in the goverment, and those in power use FUD to keep being in power. >Now the rest of Spain is supporting Catalonia using the FLA ("Fondo de Liquidez Autonómica" or "Autonomous Liquidity Fund"). I had to search what FLA is. That is a credit line that can be used by regional goverments [6]. That means it has to be payed back. Catalonia is the region that most money brings to the table with 18.9%, more than even Madrid with 18.8% (2016)[7] But it's not he one with more investment (12.78% if you run the numbers)[8]. >More sick are the majority of Catalans who don't want the secession. I didn't want independence, but I now want it, thanks to the words and actions of centralist people and politics. If you are saying that the majority doesn't want it because in 11 september's parade there was only 1 milion people and there are 6.5 milion more that weren't there... that doesn't compute (I wasn't there either). [0]http://www.eldiario.es/politica/Audiencia-Nacional-Barcenas-Rajoy-Adade_0_683832278.html http://www.eldiario.es/politica/Audiencia-Nacional-Barcenas-... [1]http://www.publico.es/politica/gurtel-perito-hacienda-confirma-hubo-ingresos-barcenas.html http://www.publico.es/politica/gurtel-perito-hacienda-confir... [2]http://www.elmundo.es/espana/2017/09/07/59b0fab8ca47418b038b463b.html http://www.elmundo.es/espana/2017/09/07/59b0fab8ca47418b038b... [3]http://www.abc.es/espana/abci-muertes-y-suicidios-larga-lista-negra-corrupcion-espana-201707191435_noticia.html http://www.abc.es/espana/abci-muertes-y-suicidios-larga-list... [4]http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2017/09/07/59b1092e22601dad198b45a3.html http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2017/09/07/59b1092e22601dad19... [5]http://dependencia.es/denuncian-que-hay-un-38-de-dependientes-severos-y-grandes-dependientes-sin-atender/ http://dependencia.es/denuncian-que-hay-un-38-de-dependiente... [6]https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fons_de_Liquiditat_Auton%C3%B2mica https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fons_de_Liquiditat_Auton%C3%B2... [7]http://www.elnacional.cat/ca/economia/catalunya-economia-espanya_109375_102.html http://www.elnacional.cat/ca/economia/catalunya-economia-esp... [8]http://www.elmundo.es/economia/macroeconomia/2017/04/04/58e38216e5fdea71158b45e2.html http://www.elmundo.es/economia/macroeconomia/2017/04/04/58e3... EDIT: Sorry, I didn't (and don't) have time to search for links in English. They are all in Spanish but one, that it's in Catalan (but has Spanish and German translation). If there was any innacuracy in this post I'd rather have conversation than untold negativity.

gasull 9y ago

> The elephant in the room is that the main parties in the Spanish goverment are using this independence process as a smokescreen to hide all their wrongdoings. True, but at the same time, it was the Catalan Government who started the secession process, and they have plenty of corruption to hide too. And if they manage to become an independent country with their own judicial system, then they might get away with all the past corruption. Maybe that's the actual motivation.