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> other countries call it corruption, in Germany is called corporatism. That's insulting, and factually inaccurate - unless you have evidence to substantiate t

> other countries call it corruption, in Germany is called corporatism. That's insulting, and factually inaccurate - unless you have evidence to substantiate this hyperbole? > for example, the way the Greek crisis was managed The Greek crisis had other origins, and the financial checks/obligations upon joining the Euro are supposed to mitigate against the risk of not being able to devalue a national currency to e.g. boost tourism or exports. Too bad the Greek financial records may have not been completely accurate. While Germany has benefited from the Euro, so have other countries. And it wasn't/isn't without downsides for Germany, either. I distinctly remember when the Euro was introduced, everything became far more expensive than the Deutschmark prices had been. I think we can agree on that the economy is very much globally connected, and that a recession is going to have wide-spread effects. And that austerity doesn't work, and shows that best case, economists and bankers don't know what they're doing, or worst case know exactly what they're doing. However, equating the actions/stance of one nations banks to that nation's people is a leap too far.

LoSboccacc 9y ago
> The Greek crisis had other origins, and the financial checks/obligations upon joining the Euro are supposed to mitigate against the risk of not being able to devalue a national currency to e.g. boost tourism or exports. Too bad the Greek financial records may have not been completely accurate. Guess who pushed hard and voiched for greece joining the euro?
- MagnumOpus 9y ago
  That would be Valerie Giscard-d'Estaing who twisted arms to get Greece into the EEC and Mitterrand who forced through the Euro. If you are trying to insinuate that this was a German plot, you couldn't be farther from the truth. The Deutsche Mark was a sacred cow and getting rid of it in favour of a common currency with "irresponsible countries" with weak currencies was deeply unpopular even with internationalists like Kohl. Only France threatening to block German reunification unless they drop the Mark, in 1990, got German politicians to agree to giving up their currency.
FabHK 9y ago
OT, but for an excellent and gripping inside account of the Greek crisis drama I highly recommend Adults in the Room by Yanis Varoufakis (the academic-turned-finance-minister, until he was booted out half a year later). The crisis was managed irrationally and vengefully, and certainly with an eye on bailing out German and French banks, and making an example of Greece.
wjnc 9y ago
It's actually a pet-peeve of mine that corporatism (Rheinland model) could be easily seen as enabling certain forms of corruption. It's very clean: hardly any bribery or extortion in this model. But networking, clientilism and favoritism are widespread. Those are aspects of corruption, but more on a systemic level than on an individual level. You won't find a police officer solliciting euros, but you will find that any business leader has extensive ties, political and/or union. And these ties influence the civil society in such a way that there are less limits on unethical conduct by those in power (:: a definition of corruption). There's a very cozy relationship between politics, business leadership and most of the union leadership in countries like Germany and the Netherlands. The relationship is that cozy, that pretty clearly unethical acts hardly warrant official responses of the juridicary, politics or unions. One step worse for the public is that even enacted legislation is not always upheld when the three parties agree on it not being in their (local) interest. The Rheinland model transfers legitimacy from the individual to the parties representing the different interests. At that point power is concentrated, and corrupts. Best recent example is the Volkswagen-example. But most large Rhineland corporations have such examples (Shell in Nigeria, Siemens in Spain, ...) I recently re-read a well-cited article on corporate social responsibility. Guess which firm was one of the examples... Volkswagen.
- kome 9y ago
  Wonderful explanation, thank you.

LoSboccacc 9y ago

> The Greek crisis had other origins, and the financial checks/obligations upon joining the Euro are supposed to mitigate against the risk of not being able to devalue a national currency to e.g. boost tourism or exports. Too bad the Greek financial records may have not been completely accurate. Guess who pushed hard and voiched for greece joining the euro?

MagnumOpus 9y ago
That would be Valerie Giscard-d'Estaing who twisted arms to get Greece into the EEC and Mitterrand who forced through the Euro. If you are trying to insinuate that this was a German plot, you couldn't be farther from the truth. The Deutsche Mark was a sacred cow and getting rid of it in favour of a common currency with "irresponsible countries" with weak currencies was deeply unpopular even with internationalists like Kohl. Only France threatening to block German reunification unless they drop the Mark, in 1990, got German politicians to agree to giving up their currency.

FabHK 9y ago

OT, but for an excellent and gripping inside account of the Greek crisis drama I highly recommend Adults in the Room by Yanis Varoufakis (the academic-turned-finance-minister, until he was booted out half a year later). The crisis was managed irrationally and vengefully, and certainly with an eye on bailing out German and French banks, and making an example of Greece.

wjnc 9y ago

It's actually a pet-peeve of mine that corporatism (Rheinland model) could be easily seen as enabling certain forms of corruption. It's very clean: hardly any bribery or extortion in this model. But networking, clientilism and favoritism are widespread. Those are aspects of corruption, but more on a systemic level than on an individual level. You won't find a police officer solliciting euros, but you will find that any business leader has extensive ties, political and/or union. And these ties influence the civil society in such a way that there are less limits on unethical conduct by those in power (:: a definition of corruption). There's a very cozy relationship between politics, business leadership and most of the union leadership in countries like Germany and the Netherlands. The relationship is that cozy, that pretty clearly unethical acts hardly warrant official responses of the juridicary, politics or unions. One step worse for the public is that even enacted legislation is not always upheld when the three parties agree on it not being in their (local) interest. The Rheinland model transfers legitimacy from the individual to the parties representing the different interests. At that point power is concentrated, and corrupts. Best recent example is the Volkswagen-example. But most large Rhineland corporations have such examples (Shell in Nigeria, Siemens in Spain, ...) I recently re-read a well-cited article on corporate social responsibility. Guess which firm was one of the examples... Volkswagen.

kome 9y ago
Wonderful explanation, thank you.