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Germany's generous subsidy and build out of solar, while solar was still really expensive, was key in driving the cost down which now the whole world benefits f
by marze 9y ago
Germany's generous subsidy and build out of solar, while solar was still really expensive, was key in driving the cost down which now the whole world benefits from. Huge credit there.
But bio fuels are an unmitigated disaster. Electric ground transportation is the future.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago> Electric ground transportation is the future. It's a relatively less evil, for now. We still haven't found a good way of dealing with old batteries and it's a huge environmental problem.
- guitarbill 9y agoDo hydrogen fuel cells have major issues, other than the chicken-and-egg problem of hydrogen refueling stations?
- _ph_ 9y agoHydrogen fuel cells use about 3x the electric energy vs. battery powered cars, if you create hydrogen via hydrolysis. It is not only the energy used for creating the hydrogen, but also the compression and transport of the hydrogen is using a lot of energy.
- speedplane 9y agoExpensive materials (platinum) and difficulty making them small enough for a car.
- czechdeveloper 9y agoIs hydrogen low stability and easy leakage not an issue anymore?
- speedplane 9y agoFrom what I understand, it's handled by well placed fuel tanks, where even if they blow, no on inside the vehicle gets hurt.
- anubisresources 9y agoHydrogen is a non-starter. Many leakage, cost of energy, risky transport issues to overcome.
- javra 9y agoThere's also ground transportation by tram, no batteries needed.
- gozur88 9y agoCan't we recycle old batteries? The starter battery in my IC car is recycled.
- namlem 9y agoOld cells get reused for stationary storage until they degrade even further, at which point they can be recycled.
- lispm 9y ago> Electric ground transportation is the future. You can already use trains in a large scale: most larger European cities are well connected and have extensive local transport systems. Next the public sector will invest a lot of money into electrical busses and their infrastructure. E-Bikes are already very popular. Cars will take a few more years... Merkel's government had ambitious goals, but industry and public was not ready - without substantial financial incentives, which would have been another problem.
- dom0 9y ago+1 Many people commute by train from the "suburbs" or the smaller cities sprinkled around the larger cities, partly because it's convenient, partly because traffic is really bad in major cities.
- toyg 9y ago> partly because traffic is really bad in major cities. This is particularly relevant in the European context, where most cities were not built for cars and now cannot be significantly altered.
- pgeorgi 9y ago> now cannot be significantly altered And why should we? (as in: I consider car-friendly cities a bug, not a feature)
- wutbrodo 9y agoSure, no one's suggesting they _should_ be altered, but evidence from the entire world suggests that most people (partly in a political context) are too dumb to understand the concept of the damage done by a car-friendly/human-unfriendly city design. So external barriers like the one described here tend to be the only defense.
- lispm 9y agoWell Germany had the unfortunate advantage of having many of their cities complete destroyed. I live in Hamburg, which was flattened by bombs. After the war the cities were rebuild - for cars..
- Tomte 9y agoIf scientists finally succeed in mimicking the oxygen evolving complex from photosynthesis, you get decentralized free hydrogen. Suddenly real hydrogen combustion (instead of fuel cells) makes sense and should be advantageous, even compared to electric transportation. But, of course, it's a bit like fusion power: should be achievable in principle, but the details are infuriatingly difficult.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- matt4077 9y agoPhotosynthesis is incredibly inefficient compared to solar cells.
- Tomte 9y agoI‘m not talking about photosynthesis (oxygen evolving complex, photosystem II and photosystem I), only the very first step. I don‘t see why it should be inefficient.
- Yetanfou 9y agoHydrogen combustion using outside air as the oxygen source will produce NOx so those engines will produce more than just water vapor.
- melling 9y agoFrom what I’ve read over the past few years, China gets the credit for driving down the price of solar. They use a lot more than anyone else: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country China is saving nuclear power too: https://qz.com/627113/bill-gates-says-china-is-the-best-place-to-pursue-next-generation-nuclear-power/ https://qz.com/627113/bill-gates-says-china-is-the-best-plac...
- fogetti 9y agoAhh, darnit. I was too late, but I had the same comment basically.
- Faark 9y agoYes the current prices are thanks to mass production in china, but he is saying that germany started to invest into the solar boom when prices where still high and without the boom might not have happened (that fast). E.g. in 2009 germany had 10GW [0] installed versus chinas 300MW [1]. But new solar installs peaked in germany at about 7.5GW over the next 3 years, among other reasons because germany does get significantly less sunlight. [0] https://energy-charts.de/power_inst.htm?year=all&period=annual&type=power_inst https://energy-charts.de/power_inst.htm?year=all&period=annu... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:China_Photovoltaics_Installed_Capacity_2016.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:China_Photovoltaics_Insta...
- fogetti 9y ago> Germany's generous subsidy and build out of solar, while solar was still really expensive, was key in driving the cost down You wanted to say China, didn't you.
- namlem 9y agoThose Chinese factories were largely financed by German capital.
- lampenrad 9y agoNo, for a long time Germany was the only significant solar market in the world. German tax payers and individuals spent billions when it was still far from economical, jump starting the whole industry: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-china-is-dominating-the-solar-industry/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-china-is-domi... >The timeline of China’s rise began in the late 1990s when Germany, overwhelmed by the domestic response to a government incentive program to promote rooftop solar panels, provided the capital, technology and experts to lure China into making solar panels to meet the German demand. >China, according to Chung, had “dabbled” in solar energy only as a source of electricity to help impoverished rural areas remote from its power grid. But then some of its pioneering companies became intrigued by the income that manufacturing solar panels for export to Germany might bring in. >China then decided to follow Germany’s lead again, developing its own “feed-in tariff” that paid handsome prices for electricity generated by rooftop solar. The result was a surge in domestic demand for solar. By PV Watt per capita Germany is still number one by a large margin at 511 (Japan is second with 336, China is at 56).