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Based on that, shouldn't it be possible to get close to a 35% price decline, as long as the government allows you to buy wholesale and self install? It would b

Based on that, shouldn't it be possible to get close to a 35% price decline, as long as the government allows you to buy wholesale and self install? It would be great to see a DIY community around this, making widespread adoption even cheaper.

eru 9y ago
You can definitely get a monetary price decline from DIY. But most people's time has value, too.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  Not sure what your lifestyle is like, but I think you would be surprised by how many people are willing to do weekend DIY projects on their homes, especially if they will save them money.
  - bradfa 9y ago
    A properly done and code-compliant residential rooftop solar install is non-trivial for many DIYers. I do lots of things around my house but a rooftop solar install is something I'd definitely hire an experienced and insured contractor for.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Your typical DIYer is unable to penetrate an asphalt shingle or metal roof and properly waterproof those penetrations for the panel frame supports, voiding your roof warranty and possibly negating any ability to make a claim for water damage from your homeowner's insurance. Also, any electrical work in most sane jurisdictions is going to require signoff from both the local code department and the utility (if grid tie). The labor of a professional is cheaper than possible poor outcomes.
    - wallace_f 9y ago
      Ok, I can appreciate those concerns, but if someone wants to do this, I think that's their right. What if they have a cabin that they want to wire with solar? What if they just want to setup some panels on top of an awning, or in their backyard, and hook them up to a beer cooler? To be fair I installed a solar+2nd battery+inverter that can also charge or be charged from the primary battery in an RV. I waterproof'd the roof, did the wiring, there's lots of guides on how to do it and it is not rocket science. Should you or my local gov have stopped me from this?
      - toomuchtodo 9y ago
        > Should you or my local gov have stopped me from this? The government isn't stopping you from putting solar panels on the top of your RV, and it's regulation of structures through building codes is usually reasonable.
        wallace_f 9y ago
        You might be interested in reading about the Tiny House movement. I think you would be surprised by how many people Rdisagree with you, and are upset with draconian housing laws and building codes. Again, I don't see an enormous difference b/w putting solar panels on an RV, and a backyard, shed, cabin or house, particularly for off-grid power. You are absolutely entitled to state your opinion though. I just think if other people want to do something that doesn't bother you in any way, it can be nice to warn of the risks, but why tell them they are wrong?
        toomuchtodo 9y ago
        > I just think if other people want to do something that doesn't bother you in any way, it can be nice to warn of the risks, but why tell them they are wrong? Because if you're breaking building code, you're breaking the law. That's the entire reason the Tiny Home movement has to build their structures on RV trailers; to be compliant with building code (which doesn't apply to RV trailers).
        9y ago
  - eru 9y ago
    Yes. Though of course, solar panel installation still has opportunity costs. Eg even if you don't want to get a second job, you could still be lazing about, spend time with family, do another DIY project, or even commute to a job in that time. (Commuting decisions usually can't be changed in the short term, but in the long term it's up for grabs just as anything else as people contemplate moving or changing jobs.)
- ctdonath 9y ago
  Yes, it does. But outside regular work hours, it's hard to get a meaningful return on those hours - something as costly, yet relatively easy (if laborious & monotonous) as installing solar panels/shingles, makes for an attractive DIY.
  - eru 9y ago
    > But outside regular work hours, it's hard to get a meaningful return on those hours - [...] I mostly agree. Of the top of my head, installing solar panels mostly competes with leisure and other DIY projects. Perhaps also with commuting, but for most people the decision on how long to commute can't be altered in the short term.
D_Alex 9y ago
Maybe... but in Australia, the system must, by law, be installed by an accredited installer to be eligible for the "small scale technology certificates", a form of subsidy. This is currently worth about 45% of the pre-incentive cost. The accreditation itself is fairly straightforward, but costly.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  > The accreditation itself is fairly straightforward, but costly. As is typical in Australia, to do almost any job you need to purchase that right. Even construction labourers (guys carrying out the bins and sweeping floors) and waitresses who serve alcohol, need an accredidation.

eru 9y ago

You can definitely get a monetary price decline from DIY. But most people's time has value, too.

wallace_f 9y ago
Not sure what your lifestyle is like, but I think you would be surprised by how many people are willing to do weekend DIY projects on their homes, especially if they will save them money.
- bradfa 9y ago
  A properly done and code-compliant residential rooftop solar install is non-trivial for many DIYers. I do lots of things around my house but a rooftop solar install is something I'd definitely hire an experienced and insured contractor for.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Your typical DIYer is unable to penetrate an asphalt shingle or metal roof and properly waterproof those penetrations for the panel frame supports, voiding your roof warranty and possibly negating any ability to make a claim for water damage from your homeowner's insurance. Also, any electrical work in most sane jurisdictions is going to require signoff from both the local code department and the utility (if grid tie). The labor of a professional is cheaper than possible poor outcomes.
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    Ok, I can appreciate those concerns, but if someone wants to do this, I think that's their right. What if they have a cabin that they want to wire with solar? What if they just want to setup some panels on top of an awning, or in their backyard, and hook them up to a beer cooler? To be fair I installed a solar+2nd battery+inverter that can also charge or be charged from the primary battery in an RV. I waterproof'd the roof, did the wiring, there's lots of guides on how to do it and it is not rocket science. Should you or my local gov have stopped me from this?
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      > Should you or my local gov have stopped me from this? The government isn't stopping you from putting solar panels on the top of your RV, and it's regulation of structures through building codes is usually reasonable.
      - wallace_f 9y ago
        You might be interested in reading about the Tiny House movement. I think you would be surprised by how many people Rdisagree with you, and are upset with draconian housing laws and building codes. Again, I don't see an enormous difference b/w putting solar panels on an RV, and a backyard, shed, cabin or house, particularly for off-grid power. You are absolutely entitled to state your opinion though. I just think if other people want to do something that doesn't bother you in any way, it can be nice to warn of the risks, but why tell them they are wrong?
        toomuchtodo 9y ago
        > I just think if other people want to do something that doesn't bother you in any way, it can be nice to warn of the risks, but why tell them they are wrong? Because if you're breaking building code, you're breaking the law. That's the entire reason the Tiny Home movement has to build their structures on RV trailers; to be compliant with building code (which doesn't apply to RV trailers).
        9y ago
- eru 9y ago
  Yes. Though of course, solar panel installation still has opportunity costs. Eg even if you don't want to get a second job, you could still be lazing about, spend time with family, do another DIY project, or even commute to a job in that time. (Commuting decisions usually can't be changed in the short term, but in the long term it's up for grabs just as anything else as people contemplate moving or changing jobs.)
ctdonath 9y ago
Yes, it does. But outside regular work hours, it's hard to get a meaningful return on those hours - something as costly, yet relatively easy (if laborious & monotonous) as installing solar panels/shingles, makes for an attractive DIY.
- eru 9y ago
  > But outside regular work hours, it's hard to get a meaningful return on those hours - [...] I mostly agree. Of the top of my head, installing solar panels mostly competes with leisure and other DIY projects. Perhaps also with commuting, but for most people the decision on how long to commute can't be altered in the short term.

D_Alex 9y ago

Maybe... but in Australia, the system must, by law, be installed by an accredited installer to be eligible for the "small scale technology certificates", a form of subsidy. This is currently worth about 45% of the pre-incentive cost. The accreditation itself is fairly straightforward, but costly.

wallace_f 9y ago
> The accreditation itself is fairly straightforward, but costly. As is typical in Australia, to do almost any job you need to purchase that right. Even construction labourers (guys carrying out the bins and sweeping floors) and waitresses who serve alcohol, need an accredidation.