6 ms·

850,000 people have top secret clearance? It doesn't feel that secret...

by Charuru 16y ago

Ardit20 16y ago
Well America is 300 million. 850,000 then is about 0.30 percent of the population. Thus, it is secret to the 99.70% of the American population. That sounds very secret to me.
Robin_Message 16y ago
Bear in mind that you have to have a "need to know" in addition to your clearance. We can speculate that there are also levels beyond top secret. In particular, eyes-only for the most sensitive stuff [1], and (what I have seen called but can't find a reference for) code-word secrecy for particular projects/operations. [1] Which is where the Bond film For Your Eyes Only gets its title.
- Tamerlin 16y ago
  The clearance levels that I can remember are: confidential secret top secret top secret ssbi -- "single scope background investigation" top secret sci -- "secured compartmentalized information" IIRC There are probably others above that that I don't remember. TS and TS/SSBI might be the same thing with different investigations. I'm not sure.
  - philwelch 16y ago
    "SCI" (Secured Compartmentalized Information) is a separate clearance for some specific set of information. For instance, since my dad worked with tactical nukes in the Marine Corps, he had a Top Secret clearance with SCI authorization from the Atomic Energy Commission. So he was cleared to access any information classified Top Secret as well as any information protected by the AEC on a need-to-know basis. Arbitrarily high levels of clearance can probably be implemented as separate SCI authorizations.
hugh3 16y ago
I know plenty of people with top secret clearance. Each knows very few secrets. (Or at least, so I assume. I don't know what they know, it's a secret.) Even I used to have a lower-grade US government security clearance, and I'm a dirty foreigner.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- sophacles 16y ago
  Huge swaths of security stuff relate to opsec. This is stuff like passwords, troop movement plans, who is being wiretapped and so on. Even more of it tho is stuff like "how much food is being put on supply ship x, or how many tons of fuel are needed to top off the tanks at X motor pool". Essentially all information that can be combined in such a way that bad guys can infer dangerous knowledge -- side-channel attacks essentially. There are also other secrets, which may be more dangerous, such as blueprints for a new weapon or whatnot. These have a longer "shelf-life". One of the best ways to keep secrets like this safe is to DOS enemy analysts and have lots of opsec stuff be classified as well. One thing tho that I consider most unfortunate is that classified is essentially a viral license. Once something is built on classified knowledge, not matter how useful it is classified, even if it could be arrived at independently.
imgabe 16y ago
A security clearance doesn't grant you access to all the information at that level of security, only specific things you need to know to do your job.
thebigshane 16y ago
Most TS information is protected by SCI (Sensitive Compartmentalized Information) which means that these secrets are sectioned off into smaller groups so if one group is exposed/infiltrated other sections are more likely to be safe. This also means that being "read into" one section does not mean you have access to other sections. My point is that the TS clearance mostly describes the process to get information not the collection of information itself. I doubt there are more than a 100,000 people that know any one (actively guarded) secret.

850,000 people have top secret clearance? It doesn't feel that secret...

by Charuru 16y ago

850,000 people have top secret clearance? It doesn't feel that secret...

Well America is 300 million. 850,000 then is about 0.30 percent of the population. Thus, it is secret to the 99.70% of the American population. That sounds very secret to me.

Robin_Message 16y ago

Bear in mind that you have to have a "need to know" in addition to your clearance. We can speculate that there are also levels beyond top secret. In particular, eyes-only for the most sensitive stuff [1], and (what I have seen called but can't find a reference for) code-word secrecy for particular projects/operations. [1] Which is where the Bond film For Your Eyes Only gets its title.

Tamerlin 16y ago
The clearance levels that I can remember are: confidential secret top secret top secret ssbi -- "single scope background investigation" top secret sci -- "secured compartmentalized information" IIRC There are probably others above that that I don't remember. TS and TS/SSBI might be the same thing with different investigations. I'm not sure.
- philwelch 16y ago
  "SCI" (Secured Compartmentalized Information) is a separate clearance for some specific set of information. For instance, since my dad worked with tactical nukes in the Marine Corps, he had a Top Secret clearance with SCI authorization from the Atomic Energy Commission. So he was cleared to access any information classified Top Secret as well as any information protected by the AEC on a need-to-know basis. Arbitrarily high levels of clearance can probably be implemented as separate SCI authorizations.

hugh3 16y ago

I know plenty of people with top secret clearance. Each knows very few secrets. (Or at least, so I assume. I don't know what they know, it's a secret.) Even I used to have a lower-grade US government security clearance, and I'm a dirty foreigner.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
sophacles 16y ago
Huge swaths of security stuff relate to opsec. This is stuff like passwords, troop movement plans, who is being wiretapped and so on. Even more of it tho is stuff like "how much food is being put on supply ship x, or how many tons of fuel are needed to top off the tanks at X motor pool". Essentially all information that can be combined in such a way that bad guys can infer dangerous knowledge -- side-channel attacks essentially. There are also other secrets, which may be more dangerous, such as blueprints for a new weapon or whatnot. These have a longer "shelf-life". One of the best ways to keep secrets like this safe is to DOS enemy analysts and have lots of opsec stuff be classified as well. One thing tho that I consider most unfortunate is that classified is essentially a viral license. Once something is built on classified knowledge, not matter how useful it is classified, even if it could be arrived at independently.

imgabe 16y ago

A security clearance doesn't grant you access to all the information at that level of security, only specific things you need to know to do your job.

thebigshane 16y ago

Most TS information is protected by SCI (Sensitive Compartmentalized Information) which means that these secrets are sectioned off into smaller groups so if one group is exposed/infiltrated other sections are more likely to be safe. This also means that being "read into" one section does not mean you have access to other sections. My point is that the TS clearance mostly describes the process to get information not the collection of information itself. I doubt there are more than a 100,000 people that know any one (actively guarded) secret.