5 ms·

My view: we need price transparency. Find out a medical code, call 3 different hospitals in your area and try to nail them down on a price for that billing cod

My view: we need price transparency. Find out a medical code, call 3 different hospitals in your area and try to nail them down on a price for that billing code - the variance will be large; but given they should all have similar price structures and pay wages that are roughly the same, they shouldn't vary by much more than 5% ...

tehlike 9y ago
Yes. This. Price transparancy and the ability to predict the eventual bill will increase competition Edit: predicting eventual bill, not the outcome.
abalone 9y ago
Except that won’t work for the most expensive medical care because you don’t have time to comparison shop, if you’re even conscious.
- refurb 9y ago
  Why not? Most medical care isn't urgent. Cancer treatment, joint replacement, heart surgery are a few examples. Most of the time you're waiting a week to do the procedure.
  - abalone 9y ago
    As I said, it doesn't work for the most expensive medical care. The most expensive medical condition is sepsis.[1] You're not gonna shop around if you have sepsis. Also in the top 10: heart attacks, pneumonia and strokes. [1] https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb204-Most-Expensive-Hospital-Conditions.jsp https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb204-Most-E...
prklmn 9y ago
I think you are spot on. I want to see a website where you can go to plug in whichever procedures you need, and you will see the the itemized costs, and whether it's covered by your insurance or not, associated with that procedure for every provider within an X mile radius from your address. It's absurd that this doesn't already exist. Uploading this pricing data to the database would have to be mandated by the federal government.
cptskippy 9y ago
Price transparency doesn't really help when you can't factor in all the potential costs and unknowns. It certainly is of no use when there's a life threatening emergency. A birth might be a flat $4000 but what happens if the mother has high blood pressure and needs to be on a magnesium drip? Or the baby is in distress and there's an emergency caesarean? Are you going to call around for a better rate? The problem with our medical system is insurance. Insurance companies are always playing games to avoid paying bills and they force medical providers to play games to get paid. Vast amounts of money are wasted in billing and claims departments trying to process or deny claims. It's gotten to the point where an insurer can fine the insured for submitting a claim with a code that requires prior authorization after seeking care from a healthcare provider. I'm not sure how pricey transparency would help with that.
- leifaffles 9y ago
  This is a particularly naive understanding of markets. To restate your argument: there are sometimes unpredictable health care events that arise for which one cannot negotiate, bargain, and price compare in advance. Therefore, price transparency doesn't work. The problem is you wouldn't make this argument about any other sort of good (for example, an emergency or home car repair) because you know exactly how markets function in those cases. The answer is: when there's price transparency, and consumers are incentivized to shop around and demand lower prices, prices come down. This benefits not only yourself, but also consumers who don't want to (or are unable to) perform this role themselves. This is why you pay cheap prices at the grocery store even if you don't haggle, clip coupons, and so on. This is why "emergency" home and car repair (while it may cost more) does not cost an order of magnitude more than "non-emergency" home or car repair.
  - pfranz 9y ago
    I don't think emergency car repair and emergency healthcare are comparable. You can take the bus or walk. If you mess up you can junk your car or upgrade to a nicer one later in life. I do think price transparency would help preventative care, but (even if you're thinking in the aggregate) it won't help people in an ambulance on the way to a hospital. Other comparable services, fire and police, are already socialized but have similar, horrible, stories from before they were paid for by the government.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
pbreit 9y ago
Wouldn't this be a trivial endeavor for the insurance companies?
fencepost 9y ago
Even then it's not like you know the pricing - is your surgeon a hospital employee? Many are not and have their own billing. Is the hospital quoting you for the anesthesiologist? Nope. Radiologist (separate from the imaging itself)? Maybe.... Evaluation of removed tissue for cancer, etc? Likely separately billed. Getting an answer on all of those for costs is going to be very hard. You might be better off finding someone who'll give you a fixed cost that they're pretty sure will provide them a profit when everything is done. Not sure what to call a service like that though.

tehlike 9y ago

Yes. This. Price transparancy and the ability to predict the eventual bill will increase competition Edit: predicting eventual bill, not the outcome.

abalone 9y ago

Except that won’t work for the most expensive medical care because you don’t have time to comparison shop, if you’re even conscious.

refurb 9y ago
Why not? Most medical care isn't urgent. Cancer treatment, joint replacement, heart surgery are a few examples. Most of the time you're waiting a week to do the procedure.
- abalone 9y ago
  As I said, it doesn't work for the most expensive medical care. The most expensive medical condition is sepsis.[1] You're not gonna shop around if you have sepsis. Also in the top 10: heart attacks, pneumonia and strokes. [1] https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb204-Most-Expensive-Hospital-Conditions.jsp https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb204-Most-E...

prklmn 9y ago

I think you are spot on. I want to see a website where you can go to plug in whichever procedures you need, and you will see the the itemized costs, and whether it's covered by your insurance or not, associated with that procedure for every provider within an X mile radius from your address. It's absurd that this doesn't already exist. Uploading this pricing data to the database would have to be mandated by the federal government.

cptskippy 9y ago

Price transparency doesn't really help when you can't factor in all the potential costs and unknowns. It certainly is of no use when there's a life threatening emergency. A birth might be a flat $4000 but what happens if the mother has high blood pressure and needs to be on a magnesium drip? Or the baby is in distress and there's an emergency caesarean? Are you going to call around for a better rate? The problem with our medical system is insurance. Insurance companies are always playing games to avoid paying bills and they force medical providers to play games to get paid. Vast amounts of money are wasted in billing and claims departments trying to process or deny claims. It's gotten to the point where an insurer can fine the insured for submitting a claim with a code that requires prior authorization after seeking care from a healthcare provider. I'm not sure how pricey transparency would help with that.

leifaffles 9y ago
This is a particularly naive understanding of markets. To restate your argument: there are sometimes unpredictable health care events that arise for which one cannot negotiate, bargain, and price compare in advance. Therefore, price transparency doesn't work. The problem is you wouldn't make this argument about any other sort of good (for example, an emergency or home car repair) because you know exactly how markets function in those cases. The answer is: when there's price transparency, and consumers are incentivized to shop around and demand lower prices, prices come down. This benefits not only yourself, but also consumers who don't want to (or are unable to) perform this role themselves. This is why you pay cheap prices at the grocery store even if you don't haggle, clip coupons, and so on. This is why "emergency" home and car repair (while it may cost more) does not cost an order of magnitude more than "non-emergency" home or car repair.
- pfranz 9y ago
  I don't think emergency car repair and emergency healthcare are comparable. You can take the bus or walk. If you mess up you can junk your car or upgrade to a nicer one later in life. I do think price transparency would help preventative care, but (even if you're thinking in the aggregate) it won't help people in an ambulance on the way to a hospital. Other comparable services, fire and police, are already socialized but have similar, horrible, stories from before they were paid for by the government.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

pbreit 9y ago

Wouldn't this be a trivial endeavor for the insurance companies?

fencepost 9y ago

Even then it's not like you know the pricing - is your surgeon a hospital employee? Many are not and have their own billing. Is the hospital quoting you for the anesthesiologist? Nope. Radiologist (separate from the imaging itself)? Maybe.... Evaluation of removed tissue for cancer, etc? Likely separately billed. Getting an answer on all of those for costs is going to be very hard. You might be better off finding someone who'll give you a fixed cost that they're pretty sure will provide them a profit when everything is done. Not sure what to call a service like that though.