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This article has very little basis in reality based on my experience at Harvard as an undergrad and at Princeton as a grad student and TA. Yes, students are ar

This article has very little basis in reality based on my experience at Harvard as an undergrad and at Princeton as a grad student and TA. Yes, students are arrogant and push for grades quite a bit. But I saw zero evidence of systemic catering to them as a whole or to any specific sub-population. I imagine the Development Office (the folks who would cater to the ultra powerful) may get involved in extreme cases? But it would be a huge to-do among the faculty (tenured faculty at Harvard and most elite institutions are incredibly powerful) and I never heard of it happening. As an undergrad, I pressed for grade changes twice and was denied, reasonably, both times. As a TA at Princeton I was often pressed for grade changes and all were denied. What almost certainly happened in this person's case is that the Professors either a) weren't tenured and couldn't bother with student push-back given a sea of work and anxiety (or mistakenly thought student perceptions matter), or b) were tenured and didn't care to deal with student push-back.

tptacek 9y ago
When you say "very little basis in reality", you mean "disagrees with my own experience". The difference between those two phrases isn't subtle. The author is relating their own actual experience teaching at Harvard, and the directly related experiences of other teachers.
- devopsproject 9y ago
  don't be so hard on the lad. They tried to teach him this at Harvard and Princeton but they apparently curved his grade and pushed him through instead of actually teaching him :)
- WillPostForFood 9y ago
  The parent is relating their own actual experience to you. Which you chose to believe is more a product of confirmation bias than reality. The author of the article, so I'll be generous and suggest she liberally is using poetic license with the truth to make a point. Do you really believe this is how the supposed incident happened? "Then, in front of the student, he pressed me to explain the reason for my poor teaching."
  - taysic 9y ago
    If the student was well-connected, and the professor was worried about their position (nontenured) and did not find arguing worth the hassle - then yes, why not? Doesn't sound that surprising.
- jforman 9y ago
  Agreed — hence the privileged place of the second half of that sentence
taysic 9y ago
The nature of the grading system is that it doesn't have a ton of transparency. It doesn't sound too surprising that the wealthy and well-connected might use any lever possible to increase their standing. This is actually one of the many things that drew me to tech as a profession - more meritocratic and you can feel it. At the end of the day, without more data it's impossible to know.
L_Rahman 9y ago
The mistake is in thinking of this as an overt control instead of a system of subtle nudges. A professor known for harsh grading gets a question from his department head and next year the curve shifts a little. And that is how your undergrad program has a proportion of grade inflation that verges on embarrassing.
- jforman 9y ago
  "A professor known for harsh grading gets a question from his department head and next year the curve shifts a little." Professors just don't care about undergrads and teaching to near the degree that you think they do. 95% of their focus is on their research. The only intervention I saw from administration in regards to grading while at Princeton was to nudge grades down.
jonstokes 9y ago
I was a graduate student at Harvard for five years (two Masters degrees), and the article is spot-on. Grade inflation was a big topic while I was there (some prof had written an editorial blaming it on affirmative action), and everything she said resonated with me. In fact, your comment is so clueless and un-self-aware, I'm kinda shocked that someone with your apparent bio could have written it. That you did pretty powerfully proves her point.
- jforman 9y ago
  These schools are big places, so it's not all that surprising different people have different experiences. What department, out of curiosity? I had experience in molecular biology and computer science at Harvard and mol bio at Princeton. (But yes, I saw zero of this in any of those places)
  - jonstokes 9y ago
    Lol, I'm so sorry, this is unkind and very possibly inaccurate, but I read your "what department" question like this: "Where were you on the internal Harvard hierarchy that we both know is incredibly important to Harvard folks, but that the outside world generally knows nothing about. I need to know where you were on the status ladder so I can decide how much of your comment, like the article author's (she's on the lower side of the middle of the ladder) is sour grapes from someone who hit a velvet rope inside the club and is bitter about it." Like I said, this is probably deeply unfair, and if it is then my apologies, but after spending five years there I can't help but parse it this way. FWIW I was at the Div school, which is near the bottom, so we're all keenly aware of these issues because the lower you are on any hierarchy the more that hierarchy and your place in it defines your experience of the whole. It's only the folks on top who can afford to be ignorant of the kinds of issues that everyone below them has to carefully navigate.
    - jforman 9y ago
      I was a common undergrad in the computer science department, and my freshman Tutor was an awesome guy from the div school. I had no part in politics (although I was aware FAS sat higher than DIV on somebody's totem pole); I just saw no evidence of the behavior described in the article and was curious if other departments behaved differently from CS.

tptacek 9y ago

When you say "very little basis in reality", you mean "disagrees with my own experience". The difference between those two phrases isn't subtle. The author is relating their own actual experience teaching at Harvard, and the directly related experiences of other teachers.

devopsproject 9y ago
don't be so hard on the lad. They tried to teach him this at Harvard and Princeton but they apparently curved his grade and pushed him through instead of actually teaching him :)
WillPostForFood 9y ago
The parent is relating their own actual experience to you. Which you chose to believe is more a product of confirmation bias than reality. The author of the article, so I'll be generous and suggest she liberally is using poetic license with the truth to make a point. Do you really believe this is how the supposed incident happened? "Then, in front of the student, he pressed me to explain the reason for my poor teaching."
- taysic 9y ago
  If the student was well-connected, and the professor was worried about their position (nontenured) and did not find arguing worth the hassle - then yes, why not? Doesn't sound that surprising.
jforman 9y ago
Agreed — hence the privileged place of the second half of that sentence

taysic 9y ago

The nature of the grading system is that it doesn't have a ton of transparency. It doesn't sound too surprising that the wealthy and well-connected might use any lever possible to increase their standing. This is actually one of the many things that drew me to tech as a profession - more meritocratic and you can feel it. At the end of the day, without more data it's impossible to know.

L_Rahman 9y ago

The mistake is in thinking of this as an overt control instead of a system of subtle nudges. A professor known for harsh grading gets a question from his department head and next year the curve shifts a little. And that is how your undergrad program has a proportion of grade inflation that verges on embarrassing.

jforman 9y ago
"A professor known for harsh grading gets a question from his department head and next year the curve shifts a little." Professors just don't care about undergrads and teaching to near the degree that you think they do. 95% of their focus is on their research. The only intervention I saw from administration in regards to grading while at Princeton was to nudge grades down.

jonstokes 9y ago

I was a graduate student at Harvard for five years (two Masters degrees), and the article is spot-on. Grade inflation was a big topic while I was there (some prof had written an editorial blaming it on affirmative action), and everything she said resonated with me. In fact, your comment is so clueless and un-self-aware, I'm kinda shocked that someone with your apparent bio could have written it. That you did pretty powerfully proves her point.

jforman 9y ago
These schools are big places, so it's not all that surprising different people have different experiences. What department, out of curiosity? I had experience in molecular biology and computer science at Harvard and mol bio at Princeton. (But yes, I saw zero of this in any of those places)
- jonstokes 9y ago
  Lol, I'm so sorry, this is unkind and very possibly inaccurate, but I read your "what department" question like this: "Where were you on the internal Harvard hierarchy that we both know is incredibly important to Harvard folks, but that the outside world generally knows nothing about. I need to know where you were on the status ladder so I can decide how much of your comment, like the article author's (she's on the lower side of the middle of the ladder) is sour grapes from someone who hit a velvet rope inside the club and is bitter about it." Like I said, this is probably deeply unfair, and if it is then my apologies, but after spending five years there I can't help but parse it this way. FWIW I was at the Div school, which is near the bottom, so we're all keenly aware of these issues because the lower you are on any hierarchy the more that hierarchy and your place in it defines your experience of the whole. It's only the folks on top who can afford to be ignorant of the kinds of issues that everyone below them has to carefully navigate.
  - jforman 9y ago
    I was a common undergrad in the computer science department, and my freshman Tutor was an awesome guy from the div school. I had no part in politics (although I was aware FAS sat higher than DIV on somebody's totem pole); I just saw no evidence of the behavior described in the article and was curious if other departments behaved differently from CS.