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And the conclusion is that he should offer his labor for minimum or some other small wage, and that conclusion is false.

rick888 16y ago
"And the conclusion is that he should offer his labor for minimum or some other small wage, and that conclusion is false." no, it's not false. If someone told me they would work on my website for free, I wouldn't want to give them any serious jobs. The reason is because there is no reason for them to continue working on my project if something better comes up or they lose interest.
- ehsanul 16y ago
  Actually, if you wanted continued work, you'd pay for it. You get only one free job, which should be limited in scope. If you want more work, you won't get it for free, and that's reason enough for any freelancer to keep working with you.
  - rick888 16y ago
    "Actually, if you wanted continued work, you'd pay for it. You get only one free job, which should be limited in scope. If you want more work, you won't get it for free, and that's reason enough for any freelancer to keep working with you." If you are working on a free project for me and you get a couple of paid projects (they are paying you), my project will most likely get put on the back-burner. Even if the freelancer knows they won't get any more work from me, projects that pay the bills now are more important.
    - messel 16y ago
      That's true but you may have gotten some free work out of it. Still not a bad deal for a limited scope task.
mattm 16y ago
No, that wasn't what I meant at all. The value of this printer was very little since it was old so instead of offering it for free, I offered it for it's value.
- jargon 16y ago
  The value of a printer is easy to understand. The value of a programmer with no portfolio is not.
  - famousactress 16y ago
    Is your argument that he ought to charge nothing because it's too hard to figure out what he's worth? If you're not willing to sort out what you're worth, you're dead in the water from the outset. Don't work for free. It's almost always a disastrous set-up. Your client doesn't have skin in the game. There's an emotional investment that comes with paying for something. It's a demonstration of VALUE. No payment, no value. It's pretty close to that simple.
    - jargon 16y ago
      That is one way to look at it. Another way would be to create a portfolio. Spend $25/mo or whatever on a web server, build some web apps and put them online for people to see. Don't work for free. How do you feel about working on open source projects for free?
      - famousactress 16y ago
        I think working on open source projects for free is different. There usually isn't really a client.. for a lot of people who work on open source projects, the client is themselves.. so in a sense, they're not working for free.. they're putting in effort, and getting a return. That said, some of the "Don't work for free" challenges still hold.. like motivation. For many people, it helps to have money on the table, and a timeline committed to. Loads of open source projects fall down because interest and motivation wax and wane. It's helpful to have an outside force keep you moving forward, and someone else's money is a big outside force.

rick888 16y ago

"And the conclusion is that he should offer his labor for minimum or some other small wage, and that conclusion is false." no, it's not false. If someone told me they would work on my website for free, I wouldn't want to give them any serious jobs. The reason is because there is no reason for them to continue working on my project if something better comes up or they lose interest.

ehsanul 16y ago
Actually, if you wanted continued work, you'd pay for it. You get only one free job, which should be limited in scope. If you want more work, you won't get it for free, and that's reason enough for any freelancer to keep working with you.
- rick888 16y ago
  "Actually, if you wanted continued work, you'd pay for it. You get only one free job, which should be limited in scope. If you want more work, you won't get it for free, and that's reason enough for any freelancer to keep working with you." If you are working on a free project for me and you get a couple of paid projects (they are paying you), my project will most likely get put on the back-burner. Even if the freelancer knows they won't get any more work from me, projects that pay the bills now are more important.
  - messel 16y ago
    That's true but you may have gotten some free work out of it. Still not a bad deal for a limited scope task.

mattm 16y ago

No, that wasn't what I meant at all. The value of this printer was very little since it was old so instead of offering it for free, I offered it for it's value.

jargon 16y ago
The value of a printer is easy to understand. The value of a programmer with no portfolio is not.
- famousactress 16y ago
  Is your argument that he ought to charge nothing because it's too hard to figure out what he's worth? If you're not willing to sort out what you're worth, you're dead in the water from the outset. Don't work for free. It's almost always a disastrous set-up. Your client doesn't have skin in the game. There's an emotional investment that comes with paying for something. It's a demonstration of VALUE. No payment, no value. It's pretty close to that simple.
  - jargon 16y ago
    That is one way to look at it. Another way would be to create a portfolio. Spend $25/mo or whatever on a web server, build some web apps and put them online for people to see. Don't work for free. How do you feel about working on open source projects for free?
    - famousactress 16y ago
      I think working on open source projects for free is different. There usually isn't really a client.. for a lot of people who work on open source projects, the client is themselves.. so in a sense, they're not working for free.. they're putting in effort, and getting a return. That said, some of the "Don't work for free" challenges still hold.. like motivation. For many people, it helps to have money on the table, and a timeline committed to. Loads of open source projects fall down because interest and motivation wax and wane. It's helpful to have an outside force keep you moving forward, and someone else's money is a big outside force.