3 ms·

> One problem with this study is that 81% of the sample was black (much higher than the 45% among homeless Americans in general) and these tend to score lower o

> One problem with this study is that 81% of the sample was black (much higher than the 45% among homeless Americans in general) and these tend to score lower on IQ tests, at least in the general population, however a UK sample of homeless obtained virtually identical scores on the WASI, despite being 96% white. Uhhh....REALLY not sure what to make of this paragraph. If I'm not missing something, seems to be implying that there's a correlation between race and IQ. This is on HN?

poke111 9y ago
This is not a controversial opinion. It is a statistical fact of psychometrics.
- aerovistae 9y ago
  I would be interested to see the results for a comparison of black and white individuals with comparable upbringings. I have a very, very hard time believing this. Yes, if you compare the cognitive ability of someone in a 3rd world country to that of someone in a first world country, or someone who grew up in poverty to someone who grew up comfortably, I would be unsurprised to see a difference. I would be intrigued to be linked to any peer-reviewed study that is not colored by those factors.
  - poke111 9y ago
    Here is a good start https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence
    - aerovistae 9y ago
      Did you read your own source? > Currently, there is no non-circumstantial evidence that these differences in test scores have a genetic component, --- > Soon, other studies appeared, contesting these conclusions and arguing instead that the Army tests had not adequately controlled for the environmental factors such as socio-economic and educational inequality between African-Americans and Whites. ---- > The majority of anthropologists today consider race to be a sociopolitical phenomenon rather than a biological one,[34] a view supported by considerable genetics research.
      - poke111 9y ago
        I didn't mean to imply that I knew the answer to your question. I meant that the IQ disparity is a statistical fact, but the cause is a hotly debated area of research without clear answers, and the Wikipedia page is a good primer on the various sides of the debate. The point is that in a study like this you may have to adjust for oversampling by race.
  - kmmlng 9y ago
    Definitely, but the author is still right to point out that black people are overrepresented in the sample. You could argue that there is still a gap between black and white Americans in terms of education, wealth, etc., and IQ is partially influenced by environmental factors such as maternal/paternal education level (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0899900707000068 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0899900707...).
itsdrewmiller 9y ago
I think he was trying to say it was evidence of an unrepresentative sample, which is an accurate observation. His counterpoint isn't very sensible though - why not just lead with the U.K. study? Then it gets into this: "It’s common knowledge in psychometric circles that reading comprehension tests are statistically equivalent to IQ tests..." and that's it for justification of projecting welfare recipient IQs. Okay then. Stopped reading there.

poke111 9y ago

This is not a controversial opinion. It is a statistical fact of psychometrics.

aerovistae 9y ago
I would be interested to see the results for a comparison of black and white individuals with comparable upbringings. I have a very, very hard time believing this. Yes, if you compare the cognitive ability of someone in a 3rd world country to that of someone in a first world country, or someone who grew up in poverty to someone who grew up comfortably, I would be unsurprised to see a difference. I would be intrigued to be linked to any peer-reviewed study that is not colored by those factors.
- poke111 9y ago
  Here is a good start https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence
  - aerovistae 9y ago
    Did you read your own source? > Currently, there is no non-circumstantial evidence that these differences in test scores have a genetic component, --- > Soon, other studies appeared, contesting these conclusions and arguing instead that the Army tests had not adequately controlled for the environmental factors such as socio-economic and educational inequality between African-Americans and Whites. ---- > The majority of anthropologists today consider race to be a sociopolitical phenomenon rather than a biological one,[34] a view supported by considerable genetics research.
    - poke111 9y ago
      I didn't mean to imply that I knew the answer to your question. I meant that the IQ disparity is a statistical fact, but the cause is a hotly debated area of research without clear answers, and the Wikipedia page is a good primer on the various sides of the debate. The point is that in a study like this you may have to adjust for oversampling by race.
- kmmlng 9y ago
  Definitely, but the author is still right to point out that black people are overrepresented in the sample. You could argue that there is still a gap between black and white Americans in terms of education, wealth, etc., and IQ is partially influenced by environmental factors such as maternal/paternal education level (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0899900707000068 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0899900707...).

itsdrewmiller 9y ago

I think he was trying to say it was evidence of an unrepresentative sample, which is an accurate observation. His counterpoint isn't very sensible though - why not just lead with the U.K. study? Then it gets into this: "It’s common knowledge in psychometric circles that reading comprehension tests are statistically equivalent to IQ tests..." and that's it for justification of projecting welfare recipient IQs. Okay then. Stopped reading there.