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Keep in mind this is absolutely a political text, and should be criticized as such. We should be skeptical of the claims in this document, just as we are skept

Keep in mind this is absolutely a political text, and should be criticized as such. We should be skeptical of the claims in this document, just as we are skeptical of Marx's work.

wwweston 9y ago
What are you/we skeptical about in Marx's work?
- MarkPNeyer 9y ago
  As a historical deterministic, he doesn't believe in or account for risk. The labor necessary to create an object needs to include all the failed attempts to create objects. If you're a determinist, risk loses meaning, and thus capital seems to serve no purpose.
  - wwweston 9y ago
    Interesting and plausible criticism. I suspect it's not accurate to characterize Marx as a total determinist either in a sociopolitical sense (I think his "inevitable victory" rhetoric is largely cheerleading and IIRC he acknowledges class warfare could end badly for everybody) or an economic sense, where his observations and criticisms about economic dynamics are no more deterministic than any other economic model (and in fact derived from accepted models). But I honestly haven't thought much about whether he fully appreciates the risk-bearing role of capital and that seems like an interesting insight worth exploring. You know of any texts/places where people discuss that?
dredmorbius 9y ago
POLITICAL œconomy, considered as a branch of the science of a statesman or legislator, proposes two distinct objects: first, to provide a plentiful revenue or subsistence for the people, or more properly to enable them to provide such a revenue or subsistence for themselves; and secondly, to supply the state or commonwealth with a revenue sufficient for the public services. It proposes to enrich both the people and the sovereign. -- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Introduction http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/smith-an-inquiry-into-the-nature-and-causes-of-the-wealth-of-nations-cannan-ed-vol-1 http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/smith-an-inquiry-into-the-... Economics is political (and much of politics is about economics), and always has been.

Keep in mind this is absolutely a political text, and should be criticized as such. We should be skeptical of the claims in this document, just as we are skeptical of Marx's work.

wwweston 9y ago

What are you/we skeptical about in Marx's work?

MarkPNeyer 9y ago
As a historical deterministic, he doesn't believe in or account for risk. The labor necessary to create an object needs to include all the failed attempts to create objects. If you're a determinist, risk loses meaning, and thus capital seems to serve no purpose.
- wwweston 9y ago
  Interesting and plausible criticism. I suspect it's not accurate to characterize Marx as a total determinist either in a sociopolitical sense (I think his "inevitable victory" rhetoric is largely cheerleading and IIRC he acknowledges class warfare could end badly for everybody) or an economic sense, where his observations and criticisms about economic dynamics are no more deterministic than any other economic model (and in fact derived from accepted models). But I honestly haven't thought much about whether he fully appreciates the risk-bearing role of capital and that seems like an interesting insight worth exploring. You know of any texts/places where people discuss that?

dredmorbius 9y ago

POLITICAL œconomy, considered as a branch of the science of a statesman or legislator, proposes two distinct objects: first, to provide a plentiful revenue or subsistence for the people, or more properly to enable them to provide such a revenue or subsistence for themselves; and secondly, to supply the state or commonwealth with a revenue sufficient for the public services. It proposes to enrich both the people and the sovereign. -- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Introduction http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/smith-an-inquiry-into-the-nature-and-causes-of-the-wealth-of-nations-cannan-ed-vol-1 http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/smith-an-inquiry-into-the-... Economics is political (and much of politics is about economics), and always has been.