5 ms·

Apple refuses to replace overheated iPad due to jailbreaking

9 points by mikecane 16y ago

michael_dorfman 16y ago
Admittedly, the warranty implications of jailbreaking iOS-based devices aren't a secret. However, blaming the user for hardware malfunction (and subsequent damage) seems a little out there. Sorry, but I'm with Apple on this one. For all we know, the unauthorized software is disabling the fan and churning the CPU up the yin-yang. You want Steve's support on Steve's hardware, you play by Steve's rules. It's that simple.
- fname 16y ago
  Wouldn't this fall under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act? Isn't it then on Apple to prove the software didn't cause the hardware malfunction? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_...
  - gte910h 16y ago
    Yes, it may. Hasn't been tested in courts to my knowledge though.
  - napierzaza 16y ago
    This could be why they switched to blaming the dropped iPad as the warranty voiding. Either way the author is staggering around and damaging his iPad.
- emehrkay 16y ago
  I know from experience that some jailbroken apps cause the device to run at a hotter temp.
- necubi 16y ago
  Incidentally, the iPad has no fan (though I still agree with your general point).
edster 16y ago
I waited to jailbreak my original iPhone until I got my new 3GS. I wonder why that is? Should we automatically believe the author of the post that he didn't try overclocking the CPU while tinkering with it? That the jailbreak didn't exploit a hole in a power management routine which ended up with a nasty side effect? I'm sorry people, but I have to agree with Apple/Motorola and the corporate types on this. Software can impact the hardware, so yes indeed tinkering with the software can void the warranty of the hardware.
- tomjen3 16y ago
  So if I install a screwed up program on my windows machine, MS may claim the warrenty was voided? No? Then Apple doesn't have the right to.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    Most desktops would be hard-pressed to cook themselves through a software/firmware hack unless significantly (stupidly) overclocked. In contrast, lots of mobile devices could cook themselves with such hacks even without any overclocking. There's also a significant difference between firmware and just installing software. The PC manufacturer and MS expect you to install any old software on that windows boxen. Apple did not manufacture the iPad with that expectation, and they were up-front about this. If you want a hackable tablet, there have been plenty of options around since 2001! I know, because I have one!
    - saurik 16y ago
      The only thing you could do is run a process at high CPU load for a long time, and you can do that in the App Store by plugging the device in and letting it sit there with a game running. Please note that the iPad jailbreak (unlike the ones used on iPhones) does not actually modify the bootloader and only has minimal kernel access (changing things that, frankly, would make it use less CPU load as it no longer validates signature certificates on binary code it is loading). (Also, there have been plenty of options since long before 2001, and I know because I have those ;P. Check out the Compaq Concerto running Windows 3.11 for Pen. Frankly, I wouldn't call the iPad a tablet, and neither does Apple: pens are a defining characteristic.) - Jay Freeman (saurik) [on the various jailbreak teams, developer of Cydia]
tricky 16y ago
If I chip my car to increase boost until the engine grenades itself, I'm not sure I'd be headed to the dealer for a warranty replacement.
- dredge 16y ago
  True, but if the rear lights suddenly stopped working then you'd expect the manufacturer to replace those under warranty regardless of what you did to the engine, wouldn't you? Note that I'm not necessarily saying Apple have done anything wrong in this particular case, but making any modification (a sticker on the back?) shouldn't automatically void any warranty claim on the whole device. IMO.
protomyth 16y ago
This goes along with the story on Motorola / eFuse. Jail breaking a phone is not an exact science and can cause problems, especially in a situation like this where the person who jail broke it doesn't have the technical prowess to deal with problems. Even if the problem is not the new software, you are still on the hook and need to be able to deal with the situation. Jail breaking cost companies support money (the staff people in this story) and they will try to minimize that money when possible (no repair for you).
- tomjen3 16y ago
  Gee, then maybe they shouldn't make it so hard do fix in the jail break in the first place.
jasonlbaptiste 16y ago
I jailbroke my 3GS a couple of months ago before getting the 4. It was by far the worst experience ever. The battery was garbage and it heated up like an oven. If it overheated to death, I would have not been surprised.
napierzaza 16y ago
So this person dropped his iPad, and cracked it and expected a new free one? Warranties are offered on products with certain limitations that keep the companies from having to replace hardware through negligence. Sounds like this person was pretty negligent. Also I find it funny that he says "the refused even though I said I would do a restore on it" but also admits that the wipe bricked the system. You take your fate into your hands when you jailbreak. If you're not smart enough to do the wipe before bringing it in then you're not a smart person to begin with.
nlawalker 16y ago
"Apple refuses to replace dropped iPad with voided warranty." Apple fans: you know that user experience you value so dearly? The slick interfaces and integration between applications and devices? The way you can take an Apple product out of the box and have it "just work?" The ability of Apple to bend over backwards to make you happy by doing things like immediately replacing devices that malfunction? Those things are all possible because of Apple's walled garden. If you take your Apple device that's only intended to run an Apple operating system that was specifically designed for it and make modifications, Apple will no longer support it. You don't get to have it both ways.
- saurik 16y ago
  There are also people out there who aren't actually "Apple fans". People like myself, for example, who feel that Apple's "slick interfaces" are actually difficult to use (too much time wasted in animations and not enough time spent on details like putting the cancel button in a uniform corner of the screen) and that they don't know the first thing about integration between applications (and even seem to avoid it, unlike Microsoft). The core issue here is that this guy /dropped his device/, a condition that Apple has /never/ claimed to do warranty replacements for. Even if you purchase Apple Care they do /not/ cover "accidental damage". You are completely confusing these two issues in your post and seem to be implying that Apple /would/ have "bent over backwards" to replace it otherwise. (And to someone who is going to reply: "I once got my dropped device replaced", that is a single instance and does not happen for everyone, and is certainly not their policy.)
  - nlawalker 16y ago
    The guy's argument was that he only dropped it because it got so hot, and the fact that it got so hot is a fault in the design of the device, therefore he should get another one under warranty. The bulk of my post was mostly a rant about people that expect Apple to provide products that have that Apple "magic" and let them make modifications, and have Apple support them if they do.
jtth 16y ago
Apple replaced my jailbroken original iPhone when the battery died as a result of using a very very shady car charger from some Chinese company.
lionhearted 16y ago
> I asked for a hard copy of this decision for reference to a lawyer. Whoa, going adversarial and implicitly threatening is never going to help you get what you want. > Apple minion snatched up my iPad again and disappeared into the back [No admittance!]. After another twenty minutes, he returned with "Robert H., Store Manager". Robert explained to me that any unauthorized software was a modification. All modifications completely void the warranty. Totally predictable. When you're asking for a favor, ask for a favor, be meek, humble, beg and scrape a little maybe, and be gracioius. "Can I get a hard copy for a lawyer?" is going to get you stonewalled, especially when they don't have to help you. > I asked if the iPad having been restored would not make this moot. Too technical, and too late anyways. Stay friendly when you're asking for a favor. They might've even helped him out if he was really nice and cool about it. I bet if he'd said, "This is taking quite a while... is there any way I can get a lender iPad if you have such a thing while you guys try to give mine a fix? I'd mightily appreciate it, it'd mean a lot to me" - then maybe he could have been lent one while they put in some hours to try to fix his. The adversarial behavior means they starting going into CYA mode instead of trying to help you.
hdx 16y ago
The bad move was taking the jailbroken ipad to the store without restoring it first.
- slantyyz 16y ago
  Totally agree. The more you read through the story, the more you realize how big of an idiot he is.

9 points by mikecane 16y ago

Admittedly, the warranty implications of jailbreaking iOS-based devices aren't a secret. However, blaming the user for hardware malfunction (and subsequent damage) seems a little out there. Sorry, but I'm with Apple on this one. For all we know, the unauthorized software is disabling the fan and churning the CPU up the yin-yang. You want Steve's support on Steve's hardware, you play by Steve's rules. It's that simple.

fname 16y ago
Wouldn't this fall under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act? Isn't it then on Apple to prove the software didn't cause the hardware malfunction? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_...
- gte910h 16y ago
  Yes, it may. Hasn't been tested in courts to my knowledge though.
- napierzaza 16y ago
  This could be why they switched to blaming the dropped iPad as the warranty voiding. Either way the author is staggering around and damaging his iPad.
emehrkay 16y ago
I know from experience that some jailbroken apps cause the device to run at a hotter temp.
necubi 16y ago
Incidentally, the iPad has no fan (though I still agree with your general point).

edster 16y ago

I waited to jailbreak my original iPhone until I got my new 3GS. I wonder why that is? Should we automatically believe the author of the post that he didn't try overclocking the CPU while tinkering with it? That the jailbreak didn't exploit a hole in a power management routine which ended up with a nasty side effect? I'm sorry people, but I have to agree with Apple/Motorola and the corporate types on this. Software can impact the hardware, so yes indeed tinkering with the software can void the warranty of the hardware.

tomjen3 16y ago
So if I install a screwed up program on my windows machine, MS may claim the warrenty was voided? No? Then Apple doesn't have the right to.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  Most desktops would be hard-pressed to cook themselves through a software/firmware hack unless significantly (stupidly) overclocked. In contrast, lots of mobile devices could cook themselves with such hacks even without any overclocking. There's also a significant difference between firmware and just installing software. The PC manufacturer and MS expect you to install any old software on that windows boxen. Apple did not manufacture the iPad with that expectation, and they were up-front about this. If you want a hackable tablet, there have been plenty of options around since 2001! I know, because I have one!
  - saurik 16y ago
    The only thing you could do is run a process at high CPU load for a long time, and you can do that in the App Store by plugging the device in and letting it sit there with a game running. Please note that the iPad jailbreak (unlike the ones used on iPhones) does not actually modify the bootloader and only has minimal kernel access (changing things that, frankly, would make it use less CPU load as it no longer validates signature certificates on binary code it is loading). (Also, there have been plenty of options since long before 2001, and I know because I have those ;P. Check out the Compaq Concerto running Windows 3.11 for Pen. Frankly, I wouldn't call the iPad a tablet, and neither does Apple: pens are a defining characteristic.) - Jay Freeman (saurik) [on the various jailbreak teams, developer of Cydia]

tricky 16y ago

If I chip my car to increase boost until the engine grenades itself, I'm not sure I'd be headed to the dealer for a warranty replacement.

dredge 16y ago
True, but if the rear lights suddenly stopped working then you'd expect the manufacturer to replace those under warranty regardless of what you did to the engine, wouldn't you? Note that I'm not necessarily saying Apple have done anything wrong in this particular case, but making any modification (a sticker on the back?) shouldn't automatically void any warranty claim on the whole device. IMO.

protomyth 16y ago

This goes along with the story on Motorola / eFuse. Jail breaking a phone is not an exact science and can cause problems, especially in a situation like this where the person who jail broke it doesn't have the technical prowess to deal with problems. Even if the problem is not the new software, you are still on the hook and need to be able to deal with the situation. Jail breaking cost companies support money (the staff people in this story) and they will try to minimize that money when possible (no repair for you).

tomjen3 16y ago
Gee, then maybe they shouldn't make it so hard do fix in the jail break in the first place.

jasonlbaptiste 16y ago

I jailbroke my 3GS a couple of months ago before getting the 4. It was by far the worst experience ever. The battery was garbage and it heated up like an oven. If it overheated to death, I would have not been surprised.

napierzaza 16y ago

So this person dropped his iPad, and cracked it and expected a new free one? Warranties are offered on products with certain limitations that keep the companies from having to replace hardware through negligence. Sounds like this person was pretty negligent. Also I find it funny that he says "the refused even though I said I would do a restore on it" but also admits that the wipe bricked the system. You take your fate into your hands when you jailbreak. If you're not smart enough to do the wipe before bringing it in then you're not a smart person to begin with.

nlawalker 16y ago

"Apple refuses to replace dropped iPad with voided warranty." Apple fans: you know that user experience you value so dearly? The slick interfaces and integration between applications and devices? The way you can take an Apple product out of the box and have it "just work?" The ability of Apple to bend over backwards to make you happy by doing things like immediately replacing devices that malfunction? Those things are all possible because of Apple's walled garden. If you take your Apple device that's only intended to run an Apple operating system that was specifically designed for it and make modifications, Apple will no longer support it. You don't get to have it both ways.

saurik 16y ago
There are also people out there who aren't actually "Apple fans". People like myself, for example, who feel that Apple's "slick interfaces" are actually difficult to use (too much time wasted in animations and not enough time spent on details like putting the cancel button in a uniform corner of the screen) and that they don't know the first thing about integration between applications (and even seem to avoid it, unlike Microsoft). The core issue here is that this guy /dropped his device/, a condition that Apple has /never/ claimed to do warranty replacements for. Even if you purchase Apple Care they do /not/ cover "accidental damage". You are completely confusing these two issues in your post and seem to be implying that Apple /would/ have "bent over backwards" to replace it otherwise. (And to someone who is going to reply: "I once got my dropped device replaced", that is a single instance and does not happen for everyone, and is certainly not their policy.)
- nlawalker 16y ago
  The guy's argument was that he only dropped it because it got so hot, and the fact that it got so hot is a fault in the design of the device, therefore he should get another one under warranty. The bulk of my post was mostly a rant about people that expect Apple to provide products that have that Apple "magic" and let them make modifications, and have Apple support them if they do.

jtth 16y ago

Apple replaced my jailbroken original iPhone when the battery died as a result of using a very very shady car charger from some Chinese company.

lionhearted 16y ago

> I asked for a hard copy of this decision for reference to a lawyer. Whoa, going adversarial and implicitly threatening is never going to help you get what you want. > Apple minion snatched up my iPad again and disappeared into the back [No admittance!]. After another twenty minutes, he returned with "Robert H., Store Manager". Robert explained to me that any unauthorized software was a modification. All modifications completely void the warranty. Totally predictable. When you're asking for a favor, ask for a favor, be meek, humble, beg and scrape a little maybe, and be gracioius. "Can I get a hard copy for a lawyer?" is going to get you stonewalled, especially when they don't have to help you. > I asked if the iPad having been restored would not make this moot. Too technical, and too late anyways. Stay friendly when you're asking for a favor. They might've even helped him out if he was really nice and cool about it. I bet if he'd said, "This is taking quite a while... is there any way I can get a lender iPad if you have such a thing while you guys try to give mine a fix? I'd mightily appreciate it, it'd mean a lot to me" - then maybe he could have been lent one while they put in some hours to try to fix his. The adversarial behavior means they starting going into CYA mode instead of trying to help you.

hdx 16y ago

The bad move was taking the jailbroken ipad to the store without restoring it first.

slantyyz 16y ago
Totally agree. The more you read through the story, the more you realize how big of an idiot he is.