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> The saver can then exchange bitcoin for dollars at any of the global bitcoin exchanges without anyone ever knowing his identity. This is where the "Chinese p

by nikcub 9y ago

> The saver can then exchange bitcoin for dollars at any of the global bitcoin exchanges without anyone ever knowing his identity. This is where the "Chinese people use Bitcoin to exfil capital" story falls apart. It's near impossible to open a foreign bank account and pass KYC from within China as a Chinese citizen. You have to travel to Macau or Hong Kong - and if you're doing that you may as well use the cheaper and more efficient underground laundering and exchange networks. The most well known ways of exfiltrating capital out of China - foreign real estate[0], casino junkets[1] and foreign acquisitions[2] - have been cracked down on in the past 12 months. I think Bitcoin pales in comparison to these sources and is a minor irritant, and it was more likely Bitcoin is now being more heavily regulated because of the ICO boom and associated scams in China. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellensheng/2017/07/31/chinese-overseas-real-estate-buying-spree-slows-delayed-by-tightened-capital-controls/#3988ec2614f7 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellensheng/2017/07/31/chinese-o... [1] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-13/crown-employees-detained-in-china-charged/8612688 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-13/crown-employees-detain... [2] http://www.afr.com/news/world/chinas-strict-capital-controls-are-working-20170808-gxrtxi http://www.afr.com/news/world/chinas-strict-capital-controls...

cs702 9y ago
As sboselli points out below (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15285900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15285900), money doesn't even need to leave the country. Just the fact alone that a Chinese citizen is buying foreign currency or Bitcoin in a black market constitutes a form of capital flight.
Nursie 9y ago
> foreign real estate There's been something of a crackdown on this in the last few months too, AFAICT http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/18/china-crack-firms-irrational-overseas-spending/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/18/china-crack-f...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
baybal2 9y ago
When I worked in Shanghai this year, I noticed that a business openly advertising "large sum transfers" was located literally one door away from city's procurator office.
- gcb0 9y ago
  what is their definition of large?
  - baybal2 9y ago
    God knows, but shops that advertise different capital exfiltration services do advertise their services rather openly in China.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  Could've been a honeypot.
contingencies 9y ago
This matches what I see on the ground in Shenzhen and in HK banks. Even the latter are getting squeezed about mainland capital inflow now. There are still mechanisms through international corporate relationships and licensed investment channels to exfiltrate large sums. The regulator in question is the 外汇管理局 or "foreign exchange management bureau". Smiles from Zurich.

by nikcub 9y ago

cs702 9y ago

As sboselli points out below (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15285900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15285900), money doesn't even need to leave the country. Just the fact alone that a Chinese citizen is buying foreign currency or Bitcoin in a black market constitutes a form of capital flight.

Nursie 9y ago

> foreign real estate There's been something of a crackdown on this in the last few months too, AFAICT http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/18/china-crack-firms-irrational-overseas-spending/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/18/china-crack-f...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

baybal2 9y ago

When I worked in Shanghai this year, I noticed that a business openly advertising "large sum transfers" was located literally one door away from city's procurator office.

gcb0 9y ago
what is their definition of large?
- baybal2 9y ago
  God knows, but shops that advertise different capital exfiltration services do advertise their services rather openly in China.
Fnoord 9y ago
Could've been a honeypot.

contingencies 9y ago

This matches what I see on the ground in Shenzhen and in HK banks. Even the latter are getting squeezed about mainland capital inflow now. There are still mechanisms through international corporate relationships and licensed investment channels to exfiltrate large sums. The regulator in question is the 外汇管理局 or "foreign exchange management bureau". Smiles from Zurich.