6 ms·

See: Bay of Pigs, the unfortunate matter of the Diem family; etc.

KonaB 16y ago
How dare you allude to what someone actually did?! Don't you know that Americans like appearance more than content? Seriously now: I upvoted you, and I wish I could upvote you twice. This myth that JFK was a saint has to die. He handled the Cuban Missile Crisis quite well, but he also escalated U.S. involvement in Vietnam, and had Diem executed (one of the greatest mistakes the U.S. ever made in Indochina). The fact that you're being downvoted for countering an admittedly pretty (yet meaningless) quote with facts is surprising. I thought HN'ers were truth-seekers, not flag-waving retards.
deleted 16y ago
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david927 16y ago
Or just see: Allen Dulles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Welsh_Dulles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Welsh_Dulles
Charuru 16y ago
I don't think this is the same thing. You're conflating a bureaucracy and expenditure problem with the CIA. I mean it's hard to say which one is the bigger problem, but they're very clearly 2 different issues. The problem with pointed out by the article is that there's a closed community within the security apparatus that has grown so big and extensive that it's difficult for the government to control, and could give us a situation where the tail wags the dog. Greater transparency there could be helpful. On the other hand I don't see how the CIA could work without secrecy. It's nuts.
- mcantelon 16y ago
  >On the other hand I don't see how the CIA could work without secrecy. It's nuts. Whether the CIA is a net benefit to society is debatable.
  - kiujhygtfhyj 16y ago
    >On the other hand I don't see how the CIA could work without secrecy. It's nuts Names of agents in foreign countries secret = yes. Existence of the CIA, the number of agents, the cost of operations, illegal operations, agents that have committed criminal offenses = no
rbanffy 16y ago
You are confusing the fallible person who delivered the speech with the principles a country was founded upon. And, BTW, Ngô Ðình Diêm's family name was Ngô, not Diêm.
- balding_n_tired 16y ago
  I stand corrected on the family name. One can appeal, with Abraham Lincoln, to the better angels of our nature, but it is as well to be realistic about the worse ones.

KonaB 16y ago

How dare you allude to what someone actually did?! Don't you know that Americans like appearance more than content? Seriously now: I upvoted you, and I wish I could upvote you twice. This myth that JFK was a saint has to die. He handled the Cuban Missile Crisis quite well, but he also escalated U.S. involvement in Vietnam, and had Diem executed (one of the greatest mistakes the U.S. ever made in Indochina). The fact that you're being downvoted for countering an admittedly pretty (yet meaningless) quote with facts is surprising. I thought HN'ers were truth-seekers, not flag-waving retards.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

david927 16y ago

Or just see: Allen Dulles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Welsh_Dulles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Welsh_Dulles

Charuru 16y ago

I don't think this is the same thing. You're conflating a bureaucracy and expenditure problem with the CIA. I mean it's hard to say which one is the bigger problem, but they're very clearly 2 different issues. The problem with pointed out by the article is that there's a closed community within the security apparatus that has grown so big and extensive that it's difficult for the government to control, and could give us a situation where the tail wags the dog. Greater transparency there could be helpful. On the other hand I don't see how the CIA could work without secrecy. It's nuts.

mcantelon 16y ago
>On the other hand I don't see how the CIA could work without secrecy. It's nuts. Whether the CIA is a net benefit to society is debatable.
- kiujhygtfhyj 16y ago
  >On the other hand I don't see how the CIA could work without secrecy. It's nuts Names of agents in foreign countries secret = yes. Existence of the CIA, the number of agents, the cost of operations, illegal operations, agents that have committed criminal offenses = no

rbanffy 16y ago

You are confusing the fallible person who delivered the speech with the principles a country was founded upon. And, BTW, Ngô Ðình Diêm's family name was Ngô, not Diêm.

balding_n_tired 16y ago
I stand corrected on the family name. One can appeal, with Abraham Lincoln, to the better angels of our nature, but it is as well to be realistic about the worse ones.