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The new default image/video codec that no other browser supports seems like it's going to be ... interesting. Of course they couldn't use VP9, just like USB-C -

The new default image/video codec that no other browser supports seems like it's going to be ... interesting. Of course they couldn't use VP9, just like USB-C - this is marginally better, and completely fucks over everyone developing outside the tiny Apple ecosystem.

jakelazaroff 9y ago
It's for the camera, not the browser, and it looks like you can change back to h.264 and JPG [1]: > If you’re currently running iOS 11 beta 1, you can verify this by switching between the High Efficiency and Most Compatible formats under iOS Settings → Camera → Formats. Under the High Efficiency format, images will be saved as HEIC and movies as an HEVC .mov file. Under Most Compatible, images will be saved as JPGs and movies as an h.264 .mov file. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/08/ios-11s-new-heifhevc-camera-formats-will-save-you-50-on-storage/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/08/ios-11s-new-heifhevc-camera-f...
- discreditable 9y ago
  It seems unfortunate that photos shared from iOS will be subject to an extra step of lossy compression in order to go to JPG.
  - jakelazaroff 9y ago
    HEIC and HEVC are both lossless, so there shouldn't be an extra step of lossy compression.
    - ac29 9y ago
      HEVC is definitely not lossless.
    - discreditable 9y ago
      They may have lossless modes but I'd bet money iOS is not using them. The file size would be huge even compared to JPEG.
013a 9y ago
To be fair; HEIC and HEVC are industry standards. If browsers don't support them, that's on the browser.
- Lutia 9y ago
  An industry standard nobody wants to use in the industry is not a standard, it's a 'tentative' one at best. Simply put, the patent groups behind HEVC got so greedy, far more than they had been with h264, that this thing is pretty much dead on arrival. The only consumer facing company that's still pushing for it is Apple. Everyone else has joined an alliance to come up with a replacement open codec, AV-1, which includes companies such as : Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, NVIDIA, AMD, Intel, Cisco, Amazon, Netflix, ARM, Adobe, the BBC, Broadcom, Realtek. There is no backing your term of HEVC being an 'industry standard' other than it being supported by the MPEG group. But MPEG group standards were industry standards because people adopted them, not because the MPEG group in itself has some divine providence given power to call everything they make a 'standard'. When the fight for which video codec should be 'the standard' was about WebM vs h264, h264 won and became a true standard not just in name but in practice because it was welcomed by every major company, while WebM was mostly pushed and cared for by one (Google), so Apple could get away with not supporting WebM in Safari and showing hostility to more open formats. This time it's not going to happen. HEVC on the web is not going to happen, at all. AV-1 is the only thing that could succeed H264.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - threeseed 9y ago
    Nothing you wrote is even remotely true. Consumer facing companies that support HEVC: Microsoft, Sony, Adobe, Nintendo, Netflix, BBC, Intel, Nvidia, AMD, Samsung, Dolby, GE, MediaTek, Philips, Mitsubishi, Warner Bros etc. In fact there are 100+ more companies supporting HEVC than AV-1 and is in shipping hardware today from Sony, LG, Samsung, Intel, AMD, ARM, Nvidia etc. H.265 is also an ITU-T standard and was adopted as the standard for broadcast television ATSC. And irrespective of all of this the fact that iOS has 350+ million users means whatever Apple decides will have a major sway on the rest of the market.
zeveb 9y ago
I think Apple's response to that is, 'come, enter our walled garden!' Apple's ecosystem is a lot like the Hotel California: you can check in any time you like, but you can never leave.
- masklinn 9y ago
  Their walled garden of industrial standards? You can criticise both HEVC and HEIF as being patent-encumbered and pushed by big companies, but there's no "walled garden" about these two. Hell, fabrice bellard pioneered using HEVC for images with BPG.
  - Veratyr 9y ago
    There's a big difference between a standard produced by industry (like HEVC) and an industry standard (like ProRes). HEVC is the former but it is not yet the latter. You can't call a standard nobody uses an "industry standard".
jjtheblunt 9y ago
tiny?

jakelazaroff 9y ago

It's for the camera, not the browser, and it looks like you can change back to h.264 and JPG [1]: > If you’re currently running iOS 11 beta 1, you can verify this by switching between the High Efficiency and Most Compatible formats under iOS Settings → Camera → Formats. Under the High Efficiency format, images will be saved as HEIC and movies as an HEVC .mov file. Under Most Compatible, images will be saved as JPGs and movies as an h.264 .mov file. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/08/ios-11s-new-heifhevc-camera-formats-will-save-you-50-on-storage/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/08/ios-11s-new-heifhevc-camera-f...

discreditable 9y ago
It seems unfortunate that photos shared from iOS will be subject to an extra step of lossy compression in order to go to JPG.
- jakelazaroff 9y ago
  HEIC and HEVC are both lossless, so there shouldn't be an extra step of lossy compression.
  - ac29 9y ago
    HEVC is definitely not lossless.
  - discreditable 9y ago
    They may have lossless modes but I'd bet money iOS is not using them. The file size would be huge even compared to JPEG.

013a 9y ago

To be fair; HEIC and HEVC are industry standards. If browsers don't support them, that's on the browser.

Lutia 9y ago
An industry standard nobody wants to use in the industry is not a standard, it's a 'tentative' one at best. Simply put, the patent groups behind HEVC got so greedy, far more than they had been with h264, that this thing is pretty much dead on arrival. The only consumer facing company that's still pushing for it is Apple. Everyone else has joined an alliance to come up with a replacement open codec, AV-1, which includes companies such as : Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, NVIDIA, AMD, Intel, Cisco, Amazon, Netflix, ARM, Adobe, the BBC, Broadcom, Realtek. There is no backing your term of HEVC being an 'industry standard' other than it being supported by the MPEG group. But MPEG group standards were industry standards because people adopted them, not because the MPEG group in itself has some divine providence given power to call everything they make a 'standard'. When the fight for which video codec should be 'the standard' was about WebM vs h264, h264 won and became a true standard not just in name but in practice because it was welcomed by every major company, while WebM was mostly pushed and cared for by one (Google), so Apple could get away with not supporting WebM in Safari and showing hostility to more open formats. This time it's not going to happen. HEVC on the web is not going to happen, at all. AV-1 is the only thing that could succeed H264.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- threeseed 9y ago
  Nothing you wrote is even remotely true. Consumer facing companies that support HEVC: Microsoft, Sony, Adobe, Nintendo, Netflix, BBC, Intel, Nvidia, AMD, Samsung, Dolby, GE, MediaTek, Philips, Mitsubishi, Warner Bros etc. In fact there are 100+ more companies supporting HEVC than AV-1 and is in shipping hardware today from Sony, LG, Samsung, Intel, AMD, ARM, Nvidia etc. H.265 is also an ITU-T standard and was adopted as the standard for broadcast television ATSC. And irrespective of all of this the fact that iOS has 350+ million users means whatever Apple decides will have a major sway on the rest of the market.

zeveb 9y ago

I think Apple's response to that is, 'come, enter our walled garden!' Apple's ecosystem is a lot like the Hotel California: you can check in any time you like, but you can never leave.

masklinn 9y ago
Their walled garden of industrial standards? You can criticise both HEVC and HEIF as being patent-encumbered and pushed by big companies, but there's no "walled garden" about these two. Hell, fabrice bellard pioneered using HEVC for images with BPG.
- Veratyr 9y ago
  There's a big difference between a standard produced by industry (like HEVC) and an industry standard (like ProRes). HEVC is the former but it is not yet the latter. You can't call a standard nobody uses an "industry standard".

jjtheblunt 9y ago

tiny?