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Hysterical article is hysterical? The actual laws are more reasonable: "Renewable generator systems connected to the grid without batteries are not a standby

Hysterical article is hysterical? The actual laws are more reasonable: "Renewable generator systems connected to the grid without batteries are not a standby power source during an FPL outage. The system must shut down when FPL's grid shuts down in order to prevent dangerous back feed on FPL's grid. This is required to protect FPL employees who may be working on the grid." Note the "without batteries" exclusion a similar exclusion applies to the cutoff switch when the grid is down, to protect line workers. https://www.fpl.com/clean-energy/net-metering/guidelines.html https://www.fpl.com/clean-energy/net-metering/guidelines.htm...

ams6110 9y ago
It sounds reasonable but the way to do this is with a device called a transfer switch. It's used on any proper installation of local power such as a home generator. When the utility power is out, the transfer switch cuts over to local power. There is no feedback to the outside power lines; the transfer switch disconnects them. Are home generators illegal also?
- phasetransition 9y ago
  Note 7 on the same page linked above would seem to set up the guidelines for grid tie switches. The language here appears similar to the way the NEC is written, which can seem confusing unless you use it all the time (as I do). If one had a transfer switch, the renewable generator would no longer be grid tied. The NEC is full of statements of this style, and often without specific references to the underlying section that defines, e.g. the times where a transfer switch is legal. The code expects you to view it as a whole, and be familiar with the interlocking sections.
- philplckthun 9y ago
  Seems like requiring such a switch would have been a more reasonable regulation in this case. Isn't this already legally required in other countries, when feeding power back into the grid? > Are home generators illegal also? If the quote is accurate then they are not: "Renewable generator systems". So why does it make a difference to law makers? This sounds utterly bonkers
  - OwlsParliament 9y ago
    Presumably it matters to lawmakers because they've been paid to neuter solar panel systems.
  - _dingus 9y ago
    That's literally exactly what the rule is asking for. See (4)(c) here https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=25-6.065 https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=25-6.065
- kbutler 9y ago
  The last item in the link I provided requires: "All renewable energy systems that do not utilize a U.L. 1741 listed inverter to feed power to FPL require a manual, visual load break disconnect switch" The UL 1741 specification describes inverters that do precisely that switching function (https://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/equipment-products/ask-experts-grid-tied-inverter-approval https://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/equipme...) So basically, "You have to install a safe system that won't fry our workers when they're trying to restore power." I support that.
  - ortusdux 9y ago
    My generator backup system has this. The generator is fed into the box and routed through a breaker. This breaker will only switch on if the mains is off. In addition to safety, it just make sense to not dump your generator's energy into the grid.
- post_break 9y ago
  My gf's parents have this. They can back feed into the house by disconnecting the power lines. From what I understand the utility companies still do not like working on lines when they hear generators because some people do not isolate and can back feed into the grid somehow. At least that's what I've been told.
  - ams6110 9y ago
    Some people do stupid things like plugging a generator into a wall socket to feed the house without a transfer switch. I would be wary too if I were a utility worker.
    - CamperBob2 9y ago
      As an aside, I find it hard to believe those people work on lines without shorting them out. That would be like cleaning a gun without unloading it first. I'd need to see some actual statistics on electrocution hazards due to backfeed before I sign on to this particular moral panic. Frankly, I don't think the utilities consider backfeed to be as dangerous to their workers as it is to their business models. It's not in their financial interest to compete with their own customers.
- ensignavenger 9y ago
  Is that the actual law/regulation, or just the FPL guideline? Also, wouldn't a transfer switch make this irrelevant, as the system is no longer 'connected to the grid'?
lafay 9y ago
This isn't a Florida-specific thing. It's a requirement of the National Electrical Code (NEC) that grid-tie inverters shut down on grid power loss, for exactly the stated reason. Every commercially produced grid-tie inverter has that feature built in.
sctb 9y ago
Thanks, we've updated the link from http://www.iflscience.com/policy/illegal-power-home-solar-panels-florida/ http://www.iflscience.com/policy/illegal-power-home-solar-pa....

ams6110 9y ago

It sounds reasonable but the way to do this is with a device called a transfer switch. It's used on any proper installation of local power such as a home generator. When the utility power is out, the transfer switch cuts over to local power. There is no feedback to the outside power lines; the transfer switch disconnects them. Are home generators illegal also?

phasetransition 9y ago
Note 7 on the same page linked above would seem to set up the guidelines for grid tie switches. The language here appears similar to the way the NEC is written, which can seem confusing unless you use it all the time (as I do). If one had a transfer switch, the renewable generator would no longer be grid tied. The NEC is full of statements of this style, and often without specific references to the underlying section that defines, e.g. the times where a transfer switch is legal. The code expects you to view it as a whole, and be familiar with the interlocking sections.
philplckthun 9y ago
Seems like requiring such a switch would have been a more reasonable regulation in this case. Isn't this already legally required in other countries, when feeding power back into the grid? > Are home generators illegal also? If the quote is accurate then they are not: "Renewable generator systems". So why does it make a difference to law makers? This sounds utterly bonkers
- OwlsParliament 9y ago
  Presumably it matters to lawmakers because they've been paid to neuter solar panel systems.
- _dingus 9y ago
  That's literally exactly what the rule is asking for. See (4)(c) here https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=25-6.065 https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=25-6.065
kbutler 9y ago
The last item in the link I provided requires: "All renewable energy systems that do not utilize a U.L. 1741 listed inverter to feed power to FPL require a manual, visual load break disconnect switch" The UL 1741 specification describes inverters that do precisely that switching function (https://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/equipment-products/ask-experts-grid-tied-inverter-approval https://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/equipme...) So basically, "You have to install a safe system that won't fry our workers when they're trying to restore power." I support that.
- ortusdux 9y ago
  My generator backup system has this. The generator is fed into the box and routed through a breaker. This breaker will only switch on if the mains is off. In addition to safety, it just make sense to not dump your generator's energy into the grid.
post_break 9y ago
My gf's parents have this. They can back feed into the house by disconnecting the power lines. From what I understand the utility companies still do not like working on lines when they hear generators because some people do not isolate and can back feed into the grid somehow. At least that's what I've been told.
- ams6110 9y ago
  Some people do stupid things like plugging a generator into a wall socket to feed the house without a transfer switch. I would be wary too if I were a utility worker.
  - CamperBob2 9y ago
    As an aside, I find it hard to believe those people work on lines without shorting them out. That would be like cleaning a gun without unloading it first. I'd need to see some actual statistics on electrocution hazards due to backfeed before I sign on to this particular moral panic. Frankly, I don't think the utilities consider backfeed to be as dangerous to their workers as it is to their business models. It's not in their financial interest to compete with their own customers.
ensignavenger 9y ago
Is that the actual law/regulation, or just the FPL guideline? Also, wouldn't a transfer switch make this irrelevant, as the system is no longer 'connected to the grid'?

lafay 9y ago

This isn't a Florida-specific thing. It's a requirement of the National Electrical Code (NEC) that grid-tie inverters shut down on grid power loss, for exactly the stated reason. Every commercially produced grid-tie inverter has that feature built in.

sctb 9y ago

Thanks, we've updated the link from http://www.iflscience.com/policy/illegal-power-home-solar-panels-florida/ http://www.iflscience.com/policy/illegal-power-home-solar-pa....