7 ms·

Yeah, I find it funny that a project called Fresh has such a dated looking GUI style :D It does look like an interesting project though, if you can ignore the

Yeah, I find it funny that a project called Fresh has such a dated looking GUI style :D It does look like an interesting project though, if you can ignore the fugly widget styles.

kronos29296 9y ago
The entire thing is writted in FASM assembler. So maybe they thought a normal gui toolkit is too heavy weight for asm.
- dkersten 9y ago
  Sure, that's likely the case and its an impressive piece of software. But.. that doesn't stop it from looking dated. Then again, maybe people used to developing in assembly (ie the target users) don't mind or are used to worse looking tools (eg when I was doing microcontroller development, most tools were pretty bad and dated looking, some newer ones used eclipse/netbeans for better or worse).
  - johnfound 9y ago
    Well, as I said several posts above, I am working on a new, assembly language, portable GUI toolkit that to be used for v3.x series of Fresh IDE. Unfortunately it will add another 50..100kB to the code, but the portability has price. :(
    - dkersten 9y ago
      I didn't mean it as a criticism to you or your work and fresh certainly looks decent, more that I found the name ironic given the "classic" look of the GUI. My first comment at least, the second one was commenting on how many low level tools are to look dated and maybe it's the norm. Again, I didn't really mean it as criticism even though I suppose it sounds like it. :/ Could you instead call into an existing portable UI library? Perhaps FLTK or something more lightweight than the popular ones. It just seems to me that creating a new GUI toolkit from scratch is a massive undertaking and I'm unsure what value you will get over spending the time improving fresh itself? I guess there's some appeal to having a self contained assembly system through and through.
      - johnfound 9y ago
        No offenses. :) At first, FLTK, does not look much better than the old Windows widgets. In addition, I strongly want Fresh IDE to be portable to MenuetOS, KolibriOS and other assembly written OSes. As a rule, they all are written with FASM and a good IDE that can be ported for days (not for years) can be great tool for the OS developers. That is why I started the development of special GUI toolkit.
        iheartmemcache 9y ago
        RE: Portability - Not sure how far you'll be able to get by gcc -S'ing something like nuklear[1] (cross-platform ANSI C89) but it might save you some time. I don't have much HLL asm/demoscene experience personally so I'm not sure what's "impressive" as engineering feats these days but this looks cool. As someone who aspires to see a viable Smalltalk-like runtime self-modifiable introspective debugger at the OS level with a decent layer of POSIX compatibility and the ability to run AVX512 instructions, I like the idea that tools like this are out there. Cheers, mate [1] https://github.com/vurtun/nuklear https://github.com/vurtun/nuklear
        exikyut 9y ago
        > As someone who aspires to see a viable Smalltalk-like runtime self-modifiable introspective debugger at the OS level That's an interesting pile of keywords you've got there. I don't know about Smalltalk (I find Squeak, Pharo, etc utterly incomprehensible - I have no idea what to do with them), but for some time I've been fascinated with the idea of a fundamentally mutable and even self-modifying environment. My favorite optimization would be that, in the case of tight loops with tons of if()s and other types of conditional logic, the language could JIT-_rearrange_ the code to nop the if()s and other logic just before the tight loop was entered - or even better, gather up the parts of code that will be executed and dump all of it somewhere contiguous. C compilers could probably be made to do this too, but that would break things like W^X and also squarely violate lots of expectations as well.
        9y ago
  - cardiffspaceman 9y ago
    I'd say it is actually a stylized version of the latest UI conventions: the icon row could be an interpretation of the MS Office 'ribbon'. I can't tell from the screen shots whether or not it has the old Borland C++ IDE green check mark and red X. That would be dated, no question. The Windows 3.1 / Presentation Manager look would be dated.

Yeah, I find it funny that a project called Fresh has such a dated looking GUI style :D It does look like an interesting project though, if you can ignore the fugly widget styles.

kronos29296 9y ago

The entire thing is writted in FASM assembler. So maybe they thought a normal gui toolkit is too heavy weight for asm.

dkersten 9y ago
Sure, that's likely the case and its an impressive piece of software. But.. that doesn't stop it from looking dated. Then again, maybe people used to developing in assembly (ie the target users) don't mind or are used to worse looking tools (eg when I was doing microcontroller development, most tools were pretty bad and dated looking, some newer ones used eclipse/netbeans for better or worse).
- johnfound 9y ago
  Well, as I said several posts above, I am working on a new, assembly language, portable GUI toolkit that to be used for v3.x series of Fresh IDE. Unfortunately it will add another 50..100kB to the code, but the portability has price. :(
  - dkersten 9y ago
    I didn't mean it as a criticism to you or your work and fresh certainly looks decent, more that I found the name ironic given the "classic" look of the GUI. My first comment at least, the second one was commenting on how many low level tools are to look dated and maybe it's the norm. Again, I didn't really mean it as criticism even though I suppose it sounds like it. :/ Could you instead call into an existing portable UI library? Perhaps FLTK or something more lightweight than the popular ones. It just seems to me that creating a new GUI toolkit from scratch is a massive undertaking and I'm unsure what value you will get over spending the time improving fresh itself? I guess there's some appeal to having a self contained assembly system through and through.
    - johnfound 9y ago
      No offenses. :) At first, FLTK, does not look much better than the old Windows widgets. In addition, I strongly want Fresh IDE to be portable to MenuetOS, KolibriOS and other assembly written OSes. As a rule, they all are written with FASM and a good IDE that can be ported for days (not for years) can be great tool for the OS developers. That is why I started the development of special GUI toolkit.
      - iheartmemcache 9y ago
        RE: Portability - Not sure how far you'll be able to get by gcc -S'ing something like nuklear[1] (cross-platform ANSI C89) but it might save you some time. I don't have much HLL asm/demoscene experience personally so I'm not sure what's "impressive" as engineering feats these days but this looks cool. As someone who aspires to see a viable Smalltalk-like runtime self-modifiable introspective debugger at the OS level with a decent layer of POSIX compatibility and the ability to run AVX512 instructions, I like the idea that tools like this are out there. Cheers, mate [1] https://github.com/vurtun/nuklear https://github.com/vurtun/nuklear
        exikyut 9y ago
        > As someone who aspires to see a viable Smalltalk-like runtime self-modifiable introspective debugger at the OS level That's an interesting pile of keywords you've got there. I don't know about Smalltalk (I find Squeak, Pharo, etc utterly incomprehensible - I have no idea what to do with them), but for some time I've been fascinated with the idea of a fundamentally mutable and even self-modifying environment. My favorite optimization would be that, in the case of tight loops with tons of if()s and other types of conditional logic, the language could JIT-_rearrange_ the code to nop the if()s and other logic just before the tight loop was entered - or even better, gather up the parts of code that will be executed and dump all of it somewhere contiguous. C compilers could probably be made to do this too, but that would break things like W^X and also squarely violate lots of expectations as well.
        9y ago
- cardiffspaceman 9y ago
  I'd say it is actually a stylized version of the latest UI conventions: the icon row could be an interpretation of the MS Office 'ribbon'. I can't tell from the screen shots whether or not it has the old Borland C++ IDE green check mark and red X. That would be dated, no question. The Windows 3.1 / Presentation Manager look would be dated.