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I think those look like raw numbers, rather than adjusted by volume of use. To be comparable you would probably have to compare number of deaths per non-motorwa

I think those look like raw numbers, rather than adjusted by volume of use. To be comparable you would probably have to compare number of deaths per non-motorway miles travelled or something similar. To add some more anecdata, I walk to/from work in central London every day. I will admit that I do occasionally see motor vehicles breaking traffic laws, but I see an order of magnitude more cyclists breaking the rules. I have both experienced, and witnessed multiple near-misses by cyclists ignoring the traffic rules/laws. As there's no need for registration there's never any repercussions, so why not? I'm sure in some cases there are justifications (it's dangerous travelling next to motor vehicles, so safer to cross major junctions in pedestrian phases), but as a pedestrian I have to not only make sure I'm looking out for when it's my turn to use a crossing, motor vehicles disobeying rules, and also cyclists who could come from any direction at any time at any speed. I think this is probably where the negative opinions of cyclists comes from. But I've also witnessed pedestrians ignoring traffic signals and almost walking into cyclists as well. So in conclusion, people are the worst.

grey-area 9y ago
If you hurt someone while driving a bike or any other vehicle there are repercussions, if at fault you will probably be arrested, and charged with crimes up to manslaughter: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist-charlie-alliston-jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist... Cars are far more dangerous, just by virtue of being heavier vehicles.
- joncrocks 9y ago
  Indeed, cars/motor vehicles are much more dangerous. In terms of repercussions, I was talking about the act of breaking traffic laws/rules themselves rather than actually causing a serious accident. With a registered vehicle, one can record a number plate and report it (or have red-light cameras). I would expect this to have an impact on behaviour.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    > one can record a number plate and report it Unfortunately, to take a general public complaint "seriously", MetPol want two minutes of video before -and- after the alleged incident. Good luck with that. Even if you do have video, it's exceedingly rare for any driver to suffer even a warning.
- DanBC 9y ago
  But that case shows the limits in the law. He was charged with manslaughter (a charge that was never going to work even in this case) and with a Victorian law - "wanton and furious driving" - a law which doesn't mention death.
zimpenfish 9y ago
> I do occasionally see motor vehicles breaking traffic laws, but I see an order of magnitude more cyclists breaking the rules. To add to this anecdata, I see more vehicles breaking the rules than cyclists -but- even if it were 10:1 cyclists:vehicles, one of them is at least a ton of metal at high speed and therefore capable of doing many orders of magnitude more damage. > this is probably where the negative opinions of cyclists comes from People are inured to cars and tend to turn a blind eye to their minor indiscretions (perhaps because they happen at a distance - cyclists are less common, out of most people's experience, and much closer - thus more visible indiscretions.)
- martinald 9y ago
  Really? On my walk to work from the station in central London, I probably see 20-100 cyclists running red lights, each time. I've had upteen near misses with cyclists because of this (crossing the road). Much rarer with cars imo.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    I walk 15-20 minutes from a station in Central London to work and whilst I might see a handful of cyclists jumping the lights, I pretty much always see more vehicles doing similar or worse.

grey-area 9y ago

If you hurt someone while driving a bike or any other vehicle there are repercussions, if at fault you will probably be arrested, and charged with crimes up to manslaughter: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist-charlie-alliston-jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist... Cars are far more dangerous, just by virtue of being heavier vehicles.

joncrocks 9y ago
Indeed, cars/motor vehicles are much more dangerous. In terms of repercussions, I was talking about the act of breaking traffic laws/rules themselves rather than actually causing a serious accident. With a registered vehicle, one can record a number plate and report it (or have red-light cameras). I would expect this to have an impact on behaviour.
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > one can record a number plate and report it Unfortunately, to take a general public complaint "seriously", MetPol want two minutes of video before -and- after the alleged incident. Good luck with that. Even if you do have video, it's exceedingly rare for any driver to suffer even a warning.
DanBC 9y ago
But that case shows the limits in the law. He was charged with manslaughter (a charge that was never going to work even in this case) and with a Victorian law - "wanton and furious driving" - a law which doesn't mention death.

zimpenfish 9y ago

> I do occasionally see motor vehicles breaking traffic laws, but I see an order of magnitude more cyclists breaking the rules. To add to this anecdata, I see more vehicles breaking the rules than cyclists -but- even if it were 10:1 cyclists:vehicles, one of them is at least a ton of metal at high speed and therefore capable of doing many orders of magnitude more damage. > this is probably where the negative opinions of cyclists comes from People are inured to cars and tend to turn a blind eye to their minor indiscretions (perhaps because they happen at a distance - cyclists are less common, out of most people's experience, and much closer - thus more visible indiscretions.)

martinald 9y ago
Really? On my walk to work from the station in central London, I probably see 20-100 cyclists running red lights, each time. I've had upteen near misses with cyclists because of this (crossing the road). Much rarer with cars imo.
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  I walk 15-20 minutes from a station in Central London to work and whilst I might see a handful of cyclists jumping the lights, I pretty much always see more vehicles doing similar or worse.