6 ms·

As a pedestrian, bicyclists are much more of a hazard to me than cars, and I want them as far from me as possible. Yes, cars are bigger, but in cities they are

As a pedestrian, bicyclists are much more of a hazard to me than cars, and I want them as far from me as possible. Yes, cars are bigger, but in cities they are often moving more slowly, and drivers are much more aware of pedestrians. Bicyclists, by and large, are either ignorant or purposefully ignore traffic laws, run red lights, race down sidewalks, and in general create hazards for both pedestrians and drivers. The only major cities I've been to where the majority of bicyclists are decent and mostly obeying traffic laws are in Copenhagen and Amsterdam. Just to be clear, though, I have no clue what happened in this accident or whether anyone was actually at fault, so this comment shouldn't be meant to suggest that Takeuchi wasn't a law-abiding cyclist!

andy_ppp 9y ago
This is a load of heresy and conjecture if ever I heard it. Here's the stats of deaths in the UK, for example (2006-2010). +--------------------------------------------+ | Year | Pedestrian deaths, hit by: | | | pedal cycle | car, pick-up or truck | |------+-------------------------------------| | 2006 | 3 | 233 | |------+-------------------------------------| | 2007 | 6 | 267 | |------+-------------------------------------| | 2008 | 3 | 247 | |------+-------------------------------------| | 2009 | 0 | 141 | |------+-------------------------------------| | 2010 | 2 | 123 | +--------------------------------------------+ More here: http://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/pedestrians http://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/ped... And here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/uk_accident_statistics_for_pedes https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/uk_accident_statistic...
- dvdcxn 9y ago
  This year there has been a lot of bad press for cyclists in the UK as one 20 year old biker hit and killed a lady. Lots of negative emotions and bad blood exposed, the court case got nationwide attention for weeks. However nobody seemed to realise the dissonance that whilst 1 cyclist caused death is the ultimate heresy, drivers kill people daily without us batting an eye. It's all a bit frustrating, I don't understand where this bias comes from - is it latent auto industry propaganda?
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    > drivers kill people daily without us batting an eye Background noise - easily ignored. > whilst 1 cyclist caused death is the ultimate heresy Statistical anomaly - easily highlighted. See also, e.g. "gun deaths in the USA vs Islamic terrorists"
  - DanBC 9y ago
    this case is a bit unusual. It wasn't a normal accidental death. He modified his bike which made it illegal to use on English roads. He had a pattern of dangerous riding. He blamed the victim, and he lied about the accident and her afterwards. It's a pretty toxic combination.
    - nailer 9y ago
      Specifically, he removed the brakes from his bike and was proud of doing so.
      - dvdcxn 9y ago
        The press haven't been completely honest in their description of his bike. He had a fixie. Which is illegal, and is dangerous, but you can slow / stop the bike by simply not pedaling. People are acting as if he was cycling a runaway train. They're quite common in the US and not illegal there.
        nailer 9y ago
        This discussion is outdated but just wanted you're right, I think I was misled here: it's standard pedal-back-and-skid brakes. The newspapers here really did make it sound like he had no capacity to brake at all.
- blub 9y ago
  I don't think anyone's worried about getting killed by a bike, they're worried about getting hit and being hurt. I totally understand, since a lot of bikers ride like maniacs and don't seem to give a shit about the rules.
  - andy_ppp 9y ago
    While we are just having opinions on things I'll say pedestrians on their phones are the biggest danger to pedestrians of all.
    - blub 9y ago
      Pedestrians on a phone are a danger to themselves, and can maybe cause an accident if they wander by mistake on the street. If I bump into another pedestrian I'm pretty sure I'll be fine. A biker is a 60kg bag of meat coming at you with 15km per hour. They are completely silent and love riding on sidewalks.
  - partisan 9y ago
    Coincidentally, I almost got mowed down yesterday by a girl on a citibike. She made no attempt to slow down and if I hadn't stopped in the crosswalk, she would have hit me. As a native New Yorker, I am weary of cars, buses, and trucks, but I know where they are going to be, generally speaking. Bicyclists are a less predictable variable. They are harder to spot and don't obey any traffic rules to any large degree. That said, I have observed that if they are a commuter with a helmet on, then they are likely to stop at lights and for pedestrians. If they have no helmet on, or are riding a citibike, then all bets are off and I should be very careful if they are heading my way.
    - Baltoli 9y ago
      I've always found that the safest way to cycle in a busy city is to behave as similarly to a car as possible. If you're acting like a car and participating properly in traffic flow, it's far less likely that you'll get into an accident or altercation with a vehicle. This is helped enormously by 20mph speed limits around the city where I live. It means that at a busy junction in the city center, I can accelerate away and get up to traffic speed as quickly as a car, if not quicker.
- joncrocks 9y ago
  I think those look like raw numbers, rather than adjusted by volume of use. To be comparable you would probably have to compare number of deaths per non-motorway miles travelled or something similar. To add some more anecdata, I walk to/from work in central London every day. I will admit that I do occasionally see motor vehicles breaking traffic laws, but I see an order of magnitude more cyclists breaking the rules. I have both experienced, and witnessed multiple near-misses by cyclists ignoring the traffic rules/laws. As there's no need for registration there's never any repercussions, so why not? I'm sure in some cases there are justifications (it's dangerous travelling next to motor vehicles, so safer to cross major junctions in pedestrian phases), but as a pedestrian I have to not only make sure I'm looking out for when it's my turn to use a crossing, motor vehicles disobeying rules, and also cyclists who could come from any direction at any time at any speed. I think this is probably where the negative opinions of cyclists comes from. But I've also witnessed pedestrians ignoring traffic signals and almost walking into cyclists as well. So in conclusion, people are the worst.
  - grey-area 9y ago
    If you hurt someone while driving a bike or any other vehicle there are repercussions, if at fault you will probably be arrested, and charged with crimes up to manslaughter: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist-charlie-alliston-jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist... Cars are far more dangerous, just by virtue of being heavier vehicles.
    - joncrocks 9y ago
      Indeed, cars/motor vehicles are much more dangerous. In terms of repercussions, I was talking about the act of breaking traffic laws/rules themselves rather than actually causing a serious accident. With a registered vehicle, one can record a number plate and report it (or have red-light cameras). I would expect this to have an impact on behaviour.
      - zimpenfish 9y ago
- cardiffspaceman 9y ago
  Boris Bikes[1] started operating in the middle of 2010. I looked it up because I was curious about whether the scheme had any overlap with the above table. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santander_Cycles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santander_Cycles
ekianjo 9y ago
it is much less dangerous for cyclists to be on the same path as pedestrians than them being on the same roads as cars. Its quite clear why.
liotier 9y ago
In Paris, because no fatal collision of a cyclist with a pedestrian has occurred last year, that category has been removed from the yearly report : https://twitter.com/EmmanuelSPV/status/909330409099530245 https://twitter.com/EmmanuelSPV/status/909330409099530245 - the killers of pedestrians are the motorized vehicles.
- blub 9y ago
  Bikers are more an annoyance than killers. The fact that they don't kill doesn't mean they don't cause accidents though. If a biker hits ones hand or arm or topples someone over the accident won't show up in those statistics you cite.

andy_ppp 9y ago

This is a load of heresy and conjecture if ever I heard it. Here's the stats of deaths in the UK, for example (2006-2010). +--------------------------------------------+ | Year | Pedestrian deaths, hit by: | | | pedal cycle | car, pick-up or truck | |------+-------------------------------------| | 2006 | 3 | 233 | |------+-------------------------------------| | 2007 | 6 | 267 | |------+-------------------------------------| | 2008 | 3 | 247 | |------+-------------------------------------| | 2009 | 0 | 141 | |------+-------------------------------------| | 2010 | 2 | 123 | +--------------------------------------------+ More here: http://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/pedestrians http://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/ped... And here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/uk_accident_statistics_for_pedes https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/uk_accident_statistic...

dvdcxn 9y ago
This year there has been a lot of bad press for cyclists in the UK as one 20 year old biker hit and killed a lady. Lots of negative emotions and bad blood exposed, the court case got nationwide attention for weeks. However nobody seemed to realise the dissonance that whilst 1 cyclist caused death is the ultimate heresy, drivers kill people daily without us batting an eye. It's all a bit frustrating, I don't understand where this bias comes from - is it latent auto industry propaganda?
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > drivers kill people daily without us batting an eye Background noise - easily ignored. > whilst 1 cyclist caused death is the ultimate heresy Statistical anomaly - easily highlighted. See also, e.g. "gun deaths in the USA vs Islamic terrorists"
- DanBC 9y ago
  this case is a bit unusual. It wasn't a normal accidental death. He modified his bike which made it illegal to use on English roads. He had a pattern of dangerous riding. He blamed the victim, and he lied about the accident and her afterwards. It's a pretty toxic combination.
  - nailer 9y ago
    Specifically, he removed the brakes from his bike and was proud of doing so.
    - dvdcxn 9y ago
      The press haven't been completely honest in their description of his bike. He had a fixie. Which is illegal, and is dangerous, but you can slow / stop the bike by simply not pedaling. People are acting as if he was cycling a runaway train. They're quite common in the US and not illegal there.
      - nailer 9y ago
        This discussion is outdated but just wanted you're right, I think I was misled here: it's standard pedal-back-and-skid brakes. The newspapers here really did make it sound like he had no capacity to brake at all.
blub 9y ago
I don't think anyone's worried about getting killed by a bike, they're worried about getting hit and being hurt. I totally understand, since a lot of bikers ride like maniacs and don't seem to give a shit about the rules.
- andy_ppp 9y ago
  While we are just having opinions on things I'll say pedestrians on their phones are the biggest danger to pedestrians of all.
  - blub 9y ago
    Pedestrians on a phone are a danger to themselves, and can maybe cause an accident if they wander by mistake on the street. If I bump into another pedestrian I'm pretty sure I'll be fine. A biker is a 60kg bag of meat coming at you with 15km per hour. They are completely silent and love riding on sidewalks.
- partisan 9y ago
  Coincidentally, I almost got mowed down yesterday by a girl on a citibike. She made no attempt to slow down and if I hadn't stopped in the crosswalk, she would have hit me. As a native New Yorker, I am weary of cars, buses, and trucks, but I know where they are going to be, generally speaking. Bicyclists are a less predictable variable. They are harder to spot and don't obey any traffic rules to any large degree. That said, I have observed that if they are a commuter with a helmet on, then they are likely to stop at lights and for pedestrians. If they have no helmet on, or are riding a citibike, then all bets are off and I should be very careful if they are heading my way.
  - Baltoli 9y ago
    I've always found that the safest way to cycle in a busy city is to behave as similarly to a car as possible. If you're acting like a car and participating properly in traffic flow, it's far less likely that you'll get into an accident or altercation with a vehicle. This is helped enormously by 20mph speed limits around the city where I live. It means that at a busy junction in the city center, I can accelerate away and get up to traffic speed as quickly as a car, if not quicker.
joncrocks 9y ago
I think those look like raw numbers, rather than adjusted by volume of use. To be comparable you would probably have to compare number of deaths per non-motorway miles travelled or something similar. To add some more anecdata, I walk to/from work in central London every day. I will admit that I do occasionally see motor vehicles breaking traffic laws, but I see an order of magnitude more cyclists breaking the rules. I have both experienced, and witnessed multiple near-misses by cyclists ignoring the traffic rules/laws. As there's no need for registration there's never any repercussions, so why not? I'm sure in some cases there are justifications (it's dangerous travelling next to motor vehicles, so safer to cross major junctions in pedestrian phases), but as a pedestrian I have to not only make sure I'm looking out for when it's my turn to use a crossing, motor vehicles disobeying rules, and also cyclists who could come from any direction at any time at any speed. I think this is probably where the negative opinions of cyclists comes from. But I've also witnessed pedestrians ignoring traffic signals and almost walking into cyclists as well. So in conclusion, people are the worst.
- grey-area 9y ago
  If you hurt someone while driving a bike or any other vehicle there are repercussions, if at fault you will probably be arrested, and charged with crimes up to manslaughter: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist-charlie-alliston-jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist... Cars are far more dangerous, just by virtue of being heavier vehicles.
  - joncrocks 9y ago
    Indeed, cars/motor vehicles are much more dangerous. In terms of repercussions, I was talking about the act of breaking traffic laws/rules themselves rather than actually causing a serious accident. With a registered vehicle, one can record a number plate and report it (or have red-light cameras). I would expect this to have an impact on behaviour.
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
cardiffspaceman 9y ago
Boris Bikes[1] started operating in the middle of 2010. I looked it up because I was curious about whether the scheme had any overlap with the above table. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santander_Cycles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santander_Cycles

ekianjo 9y ago

it is much less dangerous for cyclists to be on the same path as pedestrians than them being on the same roads as cars. Its quite clear why.

liotier 9y ago

In Paris, because no fatal collision of a cyclist with a pedestrian has occurred last year, that category has been removed from the yearly report : https://twitter.com/EmmanuelSPV/status/909330409099530245 https://twitter.com/EmmanuelSPV/status/909330409099530245 - the killers of pedestrians are the motorized vehicles.

blub 9y ago
Bikers are more an annoyance than killers. The fact that they don't kill doesn't mean they don't cause accidents though. If a biker hits ones hand or arm or topples someone over the accident won't show up in those statistics you cite.