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If we want to win that war, we should focus on content not technology, Mosaic got a lead in the game because, despite the 'techies' seeing no use for images, im
by tudorw 9y ago
If we want to win that war, we should focus on content not technology, Mosaic got a lead in the game because, despite the 'techies' seeing no use for images, image support was added, with images came the transition of media, users were au fait with articles containing text and images and could now experience similar on line, this alone was not enough, content creators starting creating content that people wanted to consume, that's what drove people to 'get online', they were missing out.
Don't get me wrong, it's still a long shot, but if an organisation could build a raft of talent, get that talent to make content that was only available on an open and progressive platform, then you might get some traction. So what might that look like, well, say I had the funds to secure 100 of the worlds best financial journalists and only delivered that content on a novel protocol, do you think I might be able to persuade some people to run a novel application to access that content, oh hang on, did I just describe Bloomberg...
- cjsuk 9y agoI agree. Back in the dark ages, when the battle of www vs Gopher was still on, I sided heavily on the side of Gopher because it didn't get in the way of the content. Gopher was a means to navigate the maze of content and most of the content was textual, postscript and neatly typeset. You could sit down with it and read it focused or print it out. We've regressed to the point where 5KiB of text comes with 2MiB of crap, meaning a noise to signal ratio of 26dB which is insane! Really Gopher is dead though. We could do with a fresh start. A search engine like WAIS, a menu system like Gopher and a standard document format that allows you to get quality content on everything from your e-reader to paper without having to read some fucked up ebook flow layout conversion. And not postscript. Something you can author by hand. I've even had enough of building things on the web. It is a horrible horrible thing to have to do. I envy system programmers who never see the pain of trying to keep a very large web application secure at even a basic level.
- cabalamat 9y ago> We've regressed to the point where 5KiB of text comes with 2MiB of crap, meaning a noise to signal ratio of 26dB which is insane! Sadly the average clickbait article contains a lot less than 5000 characfters of actual text.
- chris_wot 9y agoI don't see why these webpages need to be so huge. If websites used HTML5 properly and used CSS more extensively, a lot of the crap I feel could be removed. Seriously, aside from graphics and video, what is taking up the size of these pages? Mountains of JavaScript?
- cannonedhamster 9y agoAs someone who used to work for a web optimization company, yes mountains of Javascript. Javascript for analytics, javascript for transitions, javascript for DRM, javascript for updating pricing in real time, javascript for fonts, javascript for colors, javascript to lazy load the images....six different style sheets and images that are downloaded and resized client side...and this is just the navigation bar.
- H1Supreme 9y agoJust for fun I like to pull up the browser diagnostics on pages, and watch the absurd number of requests build up. It's insane how much junk is downloaded on seemingly simple sites.
- alfredallan 9y agoThis is why I usually use just lynx.
- masswerk 9y agoI may be wrong, but isn't connecting to a web server by lynx illegal (considered "hacking") in some countries? I remember a case in the UK around the time of the London olympic games.
- holmb 9y agoIt can never be illegal to use any tool. It is the intent and action carried out with the tool that decides whether it is illegal. Consider the difference carrying a knife, being a hunter, and carrying a knife being a bankrobber and going into a bank to use it.
- brockers 9y agoOh it most certainly can... it SHOULDN'T but it absolutely can.
- holmb 9y agoPerhaps the knife was a bit exagerated. It will be considered a weapon in many jurisdictions. Lynx however will/should hardly be considered a hacking tool. curl has been in deep waters many times, equally perplexing as the lynx scenario. https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/01/19/subject-urgent-warning/ https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/01/19/subject-urgent-warnin...
- masswerk 9y agoCompare Linux Reviews, "Solaris-user arrested by British Police for using Lynx" -- http://linuxreviews.org/news/2005/01/28_0001/28_0001.html.en http://linuxreviews.org/news/2005/01/28_0001/28_0001.html.en
- 9y ago
- avaer 9y agoIt's only insane if you subscribe to the idea that the 5 kibibytes of content is the purpose of a news or other site. Maybe as a user that's what you came for, but from a business perspective the purpose of the piece is to sneak 2 mebibytes of crap into your life. The snr on that is much better. It's only insane if you have the tools to look at what's happening under the hood. Most people don't have any idea.
- scriptkiddy 9y ago> We've regressed to the point where 5KiB of text comes with 2MiB of crap, meaning a noise to signal ratio of 26dB which is insane! Unfortunately that's what the average layman wants. They want the SPA experience. That's what they want to pay for. What kind of professional am I if I don't give people what they want to pay for? > I've even had enough of building things on the web. It is a horrible horrible thing to have to do. I envy system programmers who never see the pain of trying to keep a very large web application secure at even a basic level. I build and maintain full stack web applications for my day job. Man, is it a pain. Between the database setup, server setup, back end application, front end application, security concerns, and browser compatibility issues, I rarely get to spend any time at all working on the business logic. Seriously, modern web development is 90% chasing down bugs, security enforcement, and fixing compatibility issues. Writing the business logic is the easy part.
- singingboyo 9y ago>Seriously, modern web development is 90% chasing down bugs, security enforcement, and fixing compatibility issues. That's true of most modern development. It might be more painful on the web, I wouldn't know, but systems programming is not really any different.
- scriptkiddy 9y agoI think the only real difference is that, generally speaking, systems programming standards and best practices don't change weekly. Or, maybe they do. I don't work in that field professionally.
- pseudalopex 9y ago> Unfortunately that's what the average layman wants. They want the SPA experience. What about that experience do they want, and how do you know they want it? Engagement metrics can make auto-playing video look like a great idea, but people dislike it enough that browsers are starting to block it.
- snakeanus 9y ago> And not postscript. Something you can author by hand. How about TeX? Many sites already use js libraries that integrate latex.
- Tharkun 9y agoI hope this was intended as a joke? Most users struggle with simple typesetting conventions like underscore/asterisk. HTML tags (or CSS) are out of reach for the vast majority. TeX isn't even part of the known universe for users!
- snakeanus 9y ago> HTML tags (or CSS) are out of reach for the vast majority CSS sure, but most people can learn the basic html tags in a minute. Same for the basic latex conventions.
- flukus 9y agoI think this is a case where struggling == "doesn't want to learn". It's important to distinguish so you don't waste time trying to help the latter.
- cjsuk 9y agoNot the worst idea. However not the best. Something between that and markdown.
- mirimir 9y agoI don't see any way to win that war. The IP oligarchs have won it. They own the W3C now. But there is clearly a demand for DRM-free browsers. And if the worst fears are realized, and mainstream browsers won't display media without DRM, or become snooping devices for IP oligarchs, that demand will increase. Sure, it'll never be more than a niche, but DRM-free browsers will be there for those who want them.
- tudorw 9y agoI've no crystal ball, so looking back, monopolies and incumbent monoliths encounter resistance as they mature, there are more examples of the status quo being that they wither under the weight of complexity, this is certainly not over while consumers consume content, consumers own their time, content creators own their content, everything else is middleman stuff.
- mozumder 9y ago> But there is clearly a demand for DRM-free browsers. There is not a demand for DRM-free browser. I don't know anyone in the real world that demands a DRM-free browser.
- mirimir 9y agoThey probably won't tell you what they really want ;)
- floatboth 9y agoThis is a paranoid slippery slope. EME existed for several years already, and was implemented in browsers. Standardization doesn't change much. And no one except the big movie producers even wants to use DRM. If you don't watch movies on the web, you'll never see DRM. Firefox is DRM-free by default. It will download Widevine CDM if you start watching Netflix, but you can untick a flag in the settings to completely forbid it from downloading the CDM, if you're afraid of accidentally signing up for Netflix :D
- mirimir 9y ago