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Here in Germany politicians are still stating that Cannabis is a gateway drug, causes psychosis and makes stupid. They will even actively lie and twist statisti

Here in Germany politicians are still stating that Cannabis is a gateway drug, causes psychosis and makes stupid. They will even actively lie and twist statistics. My theory for why many politicians - especially from the right-wing - are so opposed is b/c they didn't like their weed smoking and long-haired fellow students. It's a Pavlov thing. Like many people dislike golf (justly so in my humble opinion) b/c they dislike the stereotypical golf enthusiasts.

firmgently 9y ago
That may be part of it but (at least here in the UK) the bigger factor is votes. The increasingly-shrinking (the most recent general election being an exception) voter demographic has a large overlap with the hysterical "lock 'em all up" authoritarian demographic. Legalisation of drugs is political suicide. When the UK gov's drugs advisor advised that drugs should be legal they sacked him.
- heavenlyblue 9y ago
  It's interesting though how informally liberal UK is about drugs, at the same time.
  - dood 9y ago
    The drug system in the UK is quite funny - the politicians pretend drug use needs to be treated criminally, the police pretend to enforce drug laws, and the voting public are satisfied with the status quo because if they dislike drugs they can buy into the pretense, if they like drugs they can mostly use them without much bother, and if they are indifferent to drugs they have better things to worry about.
    - heavenlyblue 9y ago
      Yes. Exactly.
- dood 9y ago
  I don't think it is even authoritarianism, we've become stuck in a strange cycle - people think drug use needs to be treated criminally because that is what they've been told for decades, and politicians keep repeating the falsehood because that's what people expect to hear. Neither voters nor politicians are even thinking about it, both just react as they've been conditioned to by the other. It'll take something dramatic to break out of this bizarre self-perpetuating cycle.
machiaweliczny 9y ago
Extensive use of cannabis has such effects from my observations. While at University I knew some people who were smoking weed everyday and they exposed psychosis, acted weird and were lazy. Maybe it's from some other substances that could be mixed with it...
- RobertoG 9y ago
  I have observed that people that I knew many years ago and that use weed daily, now have psychological problems. I know it's not a scientific study, but it have changed my mind. Years ago I though that weed was mostly inoffensive. Interestingly, I heard an expert to comment that the weed of now it's not the weed of then, but many times more powerful because the plants have been selected for it.
  - majewsky 9y ago
    > I have observed that people that I knew many years ago and that use weed daily, now have psychological problems. That observation, by itself, does not say anything about what's cause and what's effect. It may very well be that cannabis causes all these things. It may also be that the sort of people who have psychological problems are drawn towards smoking weed either because of these psychological problems (i.e. seeing cannabis use as a relief for mental stress) or because of a common cause of both desire for cannabis and psychological problems. I'm not saying which is true (not an expert on the subject), just that you cannot deduce it from your observation.
    - RobertoG 9y ago
      Something, of course, subjective, that makes me think in causality is that you can appreciate changes that are not present in other people with mental problems. Just to be clear, I'm talking about heavy users here, not occasional users. I don't think is a so strange prior to have. After all, heavy use of almost anything, have secondary effects. I understand, this is an observation, not an experiment. Anyway, as a follower of Bayes, I have updated my probabilities.
  - 9y ago
lima 9y ago
I'm strongly in favor of legalization, but I still believe Cannabis is dangerous (just like alcohol, tobacco and countless other legal drugs are). It's a well known fact that it can trigger psychosis in susceptible persons and I have even witnessed it happen to a close friend. It also had hugely detrimental effects on some of my weed-smoking friends, to the point that I no longer want to spend time with them since it affected their personality. I also know people who smoke it daily without any (visible) negative effects whatsoever..
- blubb-fish 9y ago
  it definitely should be used in moderation. regarding psychosis - if you compare weed consumption with number of schizophrenic diagnoses then the idea that weed causes schizophrenia can be easily falsified. but - of course - any psycho active substance can and will impair the mind of somebody consuming it irresponsibly. a lot of people micro dose weed - less than 0.05g per consumption unit - that's not going to cause any issues.
  - lima 9y ago
    > if you compare weed consumption with number of schizophrenic diagnoses then the idea that weed causes schizophrenia can be easily falsified That's not how it works. There are many potential triggers for psychosis in general (and schizophrenia in particular), and there are reputable studies which show that cannabis consumption is one of them. > but - of course - any psycho active substance can and will impair the mind of somebody consuming it irresponsibly. I think it's safe to say that even responsible use can have negative effects for some people. Likewise, the claim that micro dosing is not going to cause issues at all is unfounded and dangerous. We simply don't know enough about it to make such claims (enabling scientific research is a big argument for legalization!).
    - sooheon 9y ago
      So what? It is perfectly legal for me to choose to sit in a cubicle and rot away the best years of my life, a fate little better than as clinical psychosis. Let people do the things they want with their own lives.
kaffeemitsahne 9y ago
Cannibis can cause psychosis in some people, just type "cannabis psychosis" into google scholar. The common rebuttal against this is "those people were vulnerable to psychosis from the get-go", but what does that mean when, without cannabis use, those persons might have gone their whole lives without a psychotic episode? Edit: if you carefully read my post you might notice I'm not saying cannabis should be illegal.
- sooheon 9y ago
  So? Any action you take (including doing nothing) can have negative consequences. As long as it doesn't spontaneous cause psychosis in bystanders, let em smoke some pot.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- ivanhoe 9y ago
  So can alcohol, plus a lot more other very dangerous side-effects. Also, while not psycho-active, tobacco, coffee and even chocolate are very addictive substances and high-risk for some groups of people, too. So while technically true that cannabis is not without it's risks, it's not a valid argument against it unless they plan on banning half of the food that we eat...
elchief 9y ago
More than half of British Columbians have tried marijuana. Less than one percent have tried Opiates. Not the best gateway...

firmgently 9y ago

That may be part of it but (at least here in the UK) the bigger factor is votes. The increasingly-shrinking (the most recent general election being an exception) voter demographic has a large overlap with the hysterical "lock 'em all up" authoritarian demographic. Legalisation of drugs is political suicide. When the UK gov's drugs advisor advised that drugs should be legal they sacked him.

heavenlyblue 9y ago
It's interesting though how informally liberal UK is about drugs, at the same time.
- dood 9y ago
  The drug system in the UK is quite funny - the politicians pretend drug use needs to be treated criminally, the police pretend to enforce drug laws, and the voting public are satisfied with the status quo because if they dislike drugs they can buy into the pretense, if they like drugs they can mostly use them without much bother, and if they are indifferent to drugs they have better things to worry about.
  - heavenlyblue 9y ago
    Yes. Exactly.
dood 9y ago
I don't think it is even authoritarianism, we've become stuck in a strange cycle - people think drug use needs to be treated criminally because that is what they've been told for decades, and politicians keep repeating the falsehood because that's what people expect to hear. Neither voters nor politicians are even thinking about it, both just react as they've been conditioned to by the other. It'll take something dramatic to break out of this bizarre self-perpetuating cycle.

machiaweliczny 9y ago

Extensive use of cannabis has such effects from my observations. While at University I knew some people who were smoking weed everyday and they exposed psychosis, acted weird and were lazy. Maybe it's from some other substances that could be mixed with it...

RobertoG 9y ago
I have observed that people that I knew many years ago and that use weed daily, now have psychological problems. I know it's not a scientific study, but it have changed my mind. Years ago I though that weed was mostly inoffensive. Interestingly, I heard an expert to comment that the weed of now it's not the weed of then, but many times more powerful because the plants have been selected for it.
- majewsky 9y ago
  > I have observed that people that I knew many years ago and that use weed daily, now have psychological problems. That observation, by itself, does not say anything about what's cause and what's effect. It may very well be that cannabis causes all these things. It may also be that the sort of people who have psychological problems are drawn towards smoking weed either because of these psychological problems (i.e. seeing cannabis use as a relief for mental stress) or because of a common cause of both desire for cannabis and psychological problems. I'm not saying which is true (not an expert on the subject), just that you cannot deduce it from your observation.
  - RobertoG 9y ago
    Something, of course, subjective, that makes me think in causality is that you can appreciate changes that are not present in other people with mental problems. Just to be clear, I'm talking about heavy users here, not occasional users. I don't think is a so strange prior to have. After all, heavy use of almost anything, have secondary effects. I understand, this is an observation, not an experiment. Anyway, as a follower of Bayes, I have updated my probabilities.
- 9y ago

lima 9y ago

I'm strongly in favor of legalization, but I still believe Cannabis is dangerous (just like alcohol, tobacco and countless other legal drugs are). It's a well known fact that it can trigger psychosis in susceptible persons and I have even witnessed it happen to a close friend. It also had hugely detrimental effects on some of my weed-smoking friends, to the point that I no longer want to spend time with them since it affected their personality. I also know people who smoke it daily without any (visible) negative effects whatsoever..

blubb-fish 9y ago
it definitely should be used in moderation. regarding psychosis - if you compare weed consumption with number of schizophrenic diagnoses then the idea that weed causes schizophrenia can be easily falsified. but - of course - any psycho active substance can and will impair the mind of somebody consuming it irresponsibly. a lot of people micro dose weed - less than 0.05g per consumption unit - that's not going to cause any issues.
- lima 9y ago
  > if you compare weed consumption with number of schizophrenic diagnoses then the idea that weed causes schizophrenia can be easily falsified That's not how it works. There are many potential triggers for psychosis in general (and schizophrenia in particular), and there are reputable studies which show that cannabis consumption is one of them. > but - of course - any psycho active substance can and will impair the mind of somebody consuming it irresponsibly. I think it's safe to say that even responsible use can have negative effects for some people. Likewise, the claim that micro dosing is not going to cause issues at all is unfounded and dangerous. We simply don't know enough about it to make such claims (enabling scientific research is a big argument for legalization!).
  - sooheon 9y ago
    So what? It is perfectly legal for me to choose to sit in a cubicle and rot away the best years of my life, a fate little better than as clinical psychosis. Let people do the things they want with their own lives.

kaffeemitsahne 9y ago

Cannibis can cause psychosis in some people, just type "cannabis psychosis" into google scholar. The common rebuttal against this is "those people were vulnerable to psychosis from the get-go", but what does that mean when, without cannabis use, those persons might have gone their whole lives without a psychotic episode? Edit: if you carefully read my post you might notice I'm not saying cannabis should be illegal.

sooheon 9y ago
So? Any action you take (including doing nothing) can have negative consequences. As long as it doesn't spontaneous cause psychosis in bystanders, let em smoke some pot.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
ivanhoe 9y ago
So can alcohol, plus a lot more other very dangerous side-effects. Also, while not psycho-active, tobacco, coffee and even chocolate are very addictive substances and high-risk for some groups of people, too. So while technically true that cannabis is not without it's risks, it's not a valid argument against it unless they plan on banning half of the food that we eat...

elchief 9y ago

More than half of British Columbians have tried marijuana. Less than one percent have tried Opiates. Not the best gateway...