7 ms·

Why not just simply ban cars from cities in general? Most of the cities in Europe at least have a great public transport setup. Just imagine how much space used

by donjoe 9y ago

Why not just simply ban cars from cities in general? Most of the cities in Europe at least have a great public transport setup. Just imagine how much space used by parked cars would be available to public again!

chicago_wade 9y ago
I've never been to the US but I've heard that "everything" is so far apart from each other that people need cars.
- grzm 9y ago
  > Why not just simply ban cars from cities in general? I think you're over-interpreting your parent. In some cities it is feasible to go without cars. There's a lot of space between cities and a lot of smaller cities and towns where that isn't feasible, at least not currently or without a lot of additional infrastructure.
  - ekianjo 9y ago
    Some cities yes, and you can honestly count them on not too many hands for the ones which have adequate public transportation.
- misiti3780 9y ago
  i have lived in dc and NYC since 2007 and not owned a car
barrkel 9y ago
Even without any cars, delivery, trade, construction and transit vehicles add up to a significant fraction of current traffic in big European cities. You can't remove this traffic without functionally harming city life. London, where I live, has both congestion charging and emissions charging (ULEZ) but still has loads of traffic. I'd estimate about 75% of it is not private vehicles outside rush hour, and probably no more than 50% private during rush hour, in central areas. My estimates come from riding through it by motorcycle daily.
- adrianN 9y ago
  What's a "significant fraction"? Reducing traffic by, say 70% and eliminating all the parking space that goes along with the millions of cars could massively improve city life. Air pollution, noise pollution, deaths and injuries in accidents, all those things would be dramatically reduced. BTW, pedestrian zones exist in most cities. The stores there still get their goods delivered and emergency vehicles still have access. Turning most of a city in a pedestrian/cyclist zone doesn't mean that you can't have any car traffic at all.
  - barrkel 9y ago
    I just looked out the window of our office and took a quick sample of the traffic. There's no bus route on our road, mind. Out of 10 vehicles, 2 looked private (no livery at least - one Mercedes S-class possibly chauffeured, the other could be Uber but wasn't a Prius so maybe not), 3 were black cabs, 3 were delivery vans and 2 were trade vans. Eliminate 70% of that traffic, and something will break. Kill taxis and business will suffer. Kill trade vans and basic utilities will be out of action for longer. Kill deliveries and the pace of economic activity will slow down. Deliveries are the best candidate for reduction, but don't forget use of delivery vans is directly related to public transport use - people who use public transport can't carry lots of stuff around, or trek out to centralized pickup hubs, so they need delivery vans instead.
    - dmoy 9y ago
      Hasn't London already done quite a bit to reduce private traffic in the city centre? Like you gotta pay 10 pounds to drive into the city center? That may explain why there's a smaller percentage of private vehicles, and quite possibly fewer vehicles being driven altogether.
- donjoe 9y ago
  Awesome, London's got 2.6E6 registered cars according to https://www.statista.com/statistics/314980/licensed-cars-in-london-england-united-kingdom/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/314980/licensed-cars-in-.... Since by your estimation, 50% of traffic during rush hour is private, these cars need a space to park. A parked car needs roughly 8sqm. That's 2.6E6 * 0.5 * 8sqm = 10 400 000sqm of parking area (plus commuters which are obviously not included) covered by cars not moved more than a couple of mins/day. And I bet 50% of the traffic wouldn't functionally harm cities, it would simply harm people's selfishness. A car is - in most of the cases - unnecessary and simply used as a status symbol.
korzun 9y ago
> Why not just simply ban cars from cities in general? Your solution is too complicated and will not work. Why not just 'simply' build a bunch of cities on Mars and relocate?

by donjoe 9y ago

chicago_wade 9y ago

I've never been to the US but I've heard that "everything" is so far apart from each other that people need cars.

grzm 9y ago
> Why not just simply ban cars from cities in general? I think you're over-interpreting your parent. In some cities it is feasible to go without cars. There's a lot of space between cities and a lot of smaller cities and towns where that isn't feasible, at least not currently or without a lot of additional infrastructure.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  Some cities yes, and you can honestly count them on not too many hands for the ones which have adequate public transportation.
misiti3780 9y ago
i have lived in dc and NYC since 2007 and not owned a car

barrkel 9y ago

Even without any cars, delivery, trade, construction and transit vehicles add up to a significant fraction of current traffic in big European cities. You can't remove this traffic without functionally harming city life. London, where I live, has both congestion charging and emissions charging (ULEZ) but still has loads of traffic. I'd estimate about 75% of it is not private vehicles outside rush hour, and probably no more than 50% private during rush hour, in central areas. My estimates come from riding through it by motorcycle daily.

adrianN 9y ago
What's a "significant fraction"? Reducing traffic by, say 70% and eliminating all the parking space that goes along with the millions of cars could massively improve city life. Air pollution, noise pollution, deaths and injuries in accidents, all those things would be dramatically reduced. BTW, pedestrian zones exist in most cities. The stores there still get their goods delivered and emergency vehicles still have access. Turning most of a city in a pedestrian/cyclist zone doesn't mean that you can't have any car traffic at all.
- barrkel 9y ago
  I just looked out the window of our office and took a quick sample of the traffic. There's no bus route on our road, mind. Out of 10 vehicles, 2 looked private (no livery at least - one Mercedes S-class possibly chauffeured, the other could be Uber but wasn't a Prius so maybe not), 3 were black cabs, 3 were delivery vans and 2 were trade vans. Eliminate 70% of that traffic, and something will break. Kill taxis and business will suffer. Kill trade vans and basic utilities will be out of action for longer. Kill deliveries and the pace of economic activity will slow down. Deliveries are the best candidate for reduction, but don't forget use of delivery vans is directly related to public transport use - people who use public transport can't carry lots of stuff around, or trek out to centralized pickup hubs, so they need delivery vans instead.
  - dmoy 9y ago
    Hasn't London already done quite a bit to reduce private traffic in the city centre? Like you gotta pay 10 pounds to drive into the city center? That may explain why there's a smaller percentage of private vehicles, and quite possibly fewer vehicles being driven altogether.
donjoe 9y ago
Awesome, London's got 2.6E6 registered cars according to https://www.statista.com/statistics/314980/licensed-cars-in-london-england-united-kingdom/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/314980/licensed-cars-in-.... Since by your estimation, 50% of traffic during rush hour is private, these cars need a space to park. A parked car needs roughly 8sqm. That's 2.6E6 * 0.5 * 8sqm = 10 400 000sqm of parking area (plus commuters which are obviously not included) covered by cars not moved more than a couple of mins/day. And I bet 50% of the traffic wouldn't functionally harm cities, it would simply harm people's selfishness. A car is - in most of the cases - unnecessary and simply used as a status symbol.

korzun 9y ago

> Why not just simply ban cars from cities in general? Your solution is too complicated and will not work. Why not just 'simply' build a bunch of cities on Mars and relocate?