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Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WA
by jedc 9y ago
Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WAY easier to get replacements, and 3) WAAAYY easier to train new people to use it safely and efficiently.
- kobeya 9y agoFormer defense contractor here. I trust Microsoft to have put more time and money into making that controller maximally usable and useful than whatever subcontractor would have made the thing otherwise.
- sundvor 9y ago"Subcontractor" :) Yeah they have got millions and millions of hours testing down. Great to see them not falling victim to the "not invented here" syndrome.
- user5994461 9y agoAnd it's battle tested by millions of player using it frenetically every day!
- drdeadringer 9y agoI am also a former defense contractor. I wonder how much rigor Microsoft's controllers would have to go through to become a defense industry standard. The $500 Hammer legend doesn't exit in a vacuum, and I've experienced why.
- alexasmyths 9y ago+10. This should be done in many more places. Though with 'cost plus' contracts... providers are incented to create crazy new things for every problem. If there weren't moral questions around this - it would be amazing to see a NATO forces 'hackathon' where people create top gear/tech for soldiers with off-the-shelf components and software. I have a funny feeling that 'if they put their hearts to it' - there'd be no competition in terms of what could be created. Imagine the SpaceX of 'jet fighters' - 2x the capability, 5% the cost. Anyhow, obvious moral issues there ... just a thought.
- Nuzzerino 9y agoWell, you have the issue of EMP hardening. Not sure if that is a problem in submarines. But elsewhere, you have a serious defensive flaw if an EMP attack can disable military hardware.
- jack1243star 9y agoIs there an EMP capable torpedo though? They seem useless in water. Other than the nuclear ones of course...
- briandear 9y agoI think the durability of an Xbox controller is of no consequence against a nuclear torpedo.
- emiliobumachar 9y agoI doubt an EMP torpedo would exist targeting submarines underwater. Water is just crazy good at dampening electromagnetic waves. And if you can score a direct hit, the EMP device's weight in extra explosives is cheaper and more destructive.
- nalllar 9y agoA submarine's hull acts as a faraday cage. It's inherently quite well shielded against EMPs.
- seanp2k2 9y agoA lot of R
- ams6110 9y agoHow many COTS parts does a SpaceX rocket use?
- dba7dba 9y agoI guess there's no way to know for outsiders, but I've heard SpaceX buys a lot from McMaster-Carr. Parts for rocket itself or other tools used to build/test rockets? I have no idea.
- alkonaut 9y agoPrediction: the U.S. Navy will pay $1000+ for the controller.
- lostlogin 9y agoRegular PMs by qualified staff with a certified spare available for the down time and a service contract to cover them both. I think its more in the + direction.
- pmuk 9y agoTHe UK military has also been flying drones for about 10 years with Xbox controllers... https://www.pyrosoft.co.uk/blog/2007/11/04/army-fly-uav-spy-plane-with-xbox-360-controller/ https://www.pyrosoft.co.uk/blog/2007/11/04/army-fly-uav-spy-...
- unit91 9y agoUS too, though not the expensive, well-known ones. I flew an experimental drone for the USAF a few years back and we used PS3 controllers.
- Cthulhu_ 9y agoIt's not new either, I saw people using xbox controllers to control drones 10ish years ago. But yeah, why use custom controls when an off-the-shelf product with 15+ years of development iterations which is produced in the tens of millions a year will probably never beat it? A good example of going against Not Invented Here syndrome.
- cstross 9y agoI'd have two big reservations about this. 1. The Virginia class was first commissioned in 2004, with a 33 year design life. The XBox 360 was first shown in public in 2005, with a design life of ...? Yup, it's consumer electronics, with a design life of much less than 33 years. Even though there are on the order of 80-100M of them in the wild, by and by XBox 360s and replacement parts will be getting scarce. (If you think this is an exaggeration, consider the availability of spare parts today for a computer system commissioned 33 years ago, in 1984 — an original IBM PC XT, perhaps, or an original Macintosh, both of which were manufactured in — for the time — high volume. Things like 5.25" floppy disks, or a replacement M-series IBM keyboard with the original DIN plug, were once ubiquitous, but today they're rarities.) 2. A second concern is that these days everything comes with an embedded processor and an enterprising hostile entity might try to sneak malware on board a fast attack submarine via the periscope controller handset. (I've no idea what form such malware might take, or what it might accomplish, but that's not the point: it's that using cheap commercial handsets widens the threat surface of the submarine's sensor suite arbitrarily.)
- vacri 9y ago1) I don't really understand this criticism - why would a bespoke milspec controller be any more likely to be around than a widely documented consumer controller? Which do you think is easier to replace today, or get a manufacturer to remake: a model M from 1984, or a custom machine keyboard from 1984. Hell, wind the back another 10 years - I worked in a hospital with a really old bit of kit. It was a Siemens EEG machine, and the keyboard was capacitive metal tabs. No travel at all - they simply registered when pressed by a finger but not other things (like a modern smartphone screen). I'd much rather dig up a common keyboard than one of those curios.
- cube00 9y agoIs Microsoft going to be willing to share their original specs so you can build an identical controller years down the track? Given we're talking military here reverse engineering to remake wouldn't be acceptable.
- amigoingtodie 9y agoSo, now we can have a submarine exploit delivered via a controller? Consumers can compete with the military for replacement parts, or will taxpayers fund the militarization of the 360 controllers? Are these being purchased directly from Microsoft or procured via Gamestop?
- Eridrus 9y agoEverything in this article sounded great except the submarine commander seemingly considering just running down to the local market to get a controller if theirs broke.