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I agree, but if someone somehow gets a hold of drugs--and puts it in their body they shouldn't go to jail for that... putting substances in one's own body doesn

I agree, but if someone somehow gets a hold of drugs--and puts it in their body they shouldn't go to jail for that... putting substances in one's own body doesn't necessarily hurt others--unless they become violent as a result - but until they commit some violent crime hopped up on meth -- innocent till guilty of a violent crime. Morality and what not should not be forced on people. And most people with drug dependency issue deserve to be in hospitals NOT prisons. Let's have some compassion as a society instead of fueling the drug -> prison -> poverty because dad-in-jail/single-mom-as-a-result cycle that's so prevalent in the lower class.

ams6110 9y ago
Problem is, if there's anyplace more expensive to keep a person than in prison, it's probably in a hospital. Doctors and nurses make a lot more money than guards (and a hospital treating drug addicts will need guards too).
- smcl 9y ago
  Well I don't think that statement was meant to be taken literally - you don't just sentence someone to 4 years of hospital instead of 4 years of prison. It's more that you provide support for anyone with drug problems whether that is counselling, support for kicking the habit, replacement drugs on prescription (methadone or what have you) clean needles and needle exchanges. We should be doing this anyway for the sake of treating people humanely instead of cruelly. The fact that it'd probably be cheaper and would result in more productive, healthy citizens is just a pleasant side-effect.
brndnmtthws 9y ago
You might be able to make the argument that someone who abuses antibiotics to the point of turning themselves into a walking incubator of drug-resistant bacteria does pose some risk to the general public. There should be a good middle ground here: one where people have access to drugs, but there's some accountability (or at least a speed bump) to prevent people from causing harm to themselves or others. I think we all agree that dishing out jail time for getting high doesn't work.
- leksak 9y ago
  It'll be interesting to see if testosterone, human growth hormone and steroids will also be legal to use and posses outside of professional sports
beefield 9y ago
"drinking & driving doesn't necessarily hurt others--unless there is an accident as a result - but until there is an accident -- innocent till guilty of an accident while influenced." Do you agree also with the statement above? My view is that most of the externalities of drug uses should be managed by taxation, not forbidden. But there are some externalities that require more brutal coercion than just taxation.
- addicted 9y ago
  This isn't comparable. The odds of hurting someone else when youre driving after drinking are ridiculously high. If someone is driving after consuming a drug throw the book at them. But if they're just chilling at home that's a completely different matter.
  - beefield 9y ago
    > The odds of hurting someone else when youre driving after drinking are ridiculously high. No. They are not ridiculously high. They are minuscule. "In 2015, nearly 1.1 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics. That’s one percent of the 111 million self-reported episodes of alcohol-impaired driving among U.S. adults each year"[1] Assuming that all the drunk drivers that hurt someone else are arrested and most arrested ones haven't hurt anyone, odds of hurting someone when drinking & driving are way less than 1%. (This is not to imply that I would like to allow drunk driving.) [1]https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impa...
Retra 9y ago
Violence isn't the only crime one can commit on drugs. Neglect and carelessness can also be criminal acts in some circumstances.
- ghettoimp 9y ago
  Agreed. Gah... it's such a mess. I totally get the argument that the drug war is insane---it creates a black market, fuels organized crime, puts harmless folks in jails, unfairly targets minorities, and so on. And I generally agree that people should be able to do what they want to their own selves. And yet, drugs are clearly bad, and I fear that legalizing them is a hugely normalizing move. I do like to drink, but it's clear that alcohol is absolutely everywhere in the US and that this causes huge collateral damage. Yes, it's absolutely possible to drink occasionally, and responsibly, and have a great time, and what's not to like? But people still very frequently kill each other by driving drunk, or they drink themselves to death and leave their families to deal with the mess, or they use alcohol as a tool for rape, or they simply drink more than they should, and more frequently, to the detriment of their health, careers, marriages, and general potential. It's generally expected and accepted that it is normal for high-school kids to be drinking, and maybe this seems OK to some folks, and maybe nothing can be done for it, but it bugs the hell out of me, because I have kids, and because, from my own personal experience, the line between recreation and dependence is very thin, indeed. Legal or not, pot is implicitly and increasingly acceptable almost everywhere. I hear that more than half of US adults have tried it. And I have friends, with little kids, who regularly use it and keep it in their homes. They provide excuses about why they need it and explanations of what it does for them. As an outsider, it seems like total and complete bullshit, and I don't want any part of it. Fortunately I'm old and stubborn enough to set my own, clear boundaries. But my kids are a lot younger than me, and not so inflexible. I very much don't want them to be pressured into alcohol and pot and all the rest when they are so young. I'll teach them as best I can, and they'll decide to do what they will. But as drug use becomes more normal, acceptable, and pervasive, I fear we'll inevitably see a lot more folks (especially kids) being pulled into it, and I think that will cause a lot of damage. Of course, hopefully I'm wrong.
  - kelnos 9y ago

ams6110 9y ago

Problem is, if there's anyplace more expensive to keep a person than in prison, it's probably in a hospital. Doctors and nurses make a lot more money than guards (and a hospital treating drug addicts will need guards too).

smcl 9y ago
Well I don't think that statement was meant to be taken literally - you don't just sentence someone to 4 years of hospital instead of 4 years of prison. It's more that you provide support for anyone with drug problems whether that is counselling, support for kicking the habit, replacement drugs on prescription (methadone or what have you) clean needles and needle exchanges. We should be doing this anyway for the sake of treating people humanely instead of cruelly. The fact that it'd probably be cheaper and would result in more productive, healthy citizens is just a pleasant side-effect.

brndnmtthws 9y ago

You might be able to make the argument that someone who abuses antibiotics to the point of turning themselves into a walking incubator of drug-resistant bacteria does pose some risk to the general public. There should be a good middle ground here: one where people have access to drugs, but there's some accountability (or at least a speed bump) to prevent people from causing harm to themselves or others. I think we all agree that dishing out jail time for getting high doesn't work.

leksak 9y ago
It'll be interesting to see if testosterone, human growth hormone and steroids will also be legal to use and posses outside of professional sports

beefield 9y ago

"drinking & driving doesn't necessarily hurt others--unless there is an accident as a result - but until there is an accident -- innocent till guilty of an accident while influenced." Do you agree also with the statement above? My view is that most of the externalities of drug uses should be managed by taxation, not forbidden. But there are some externalities that require more brutal coercion than just taxation.

addicted 9y ago
This isn't comparable. The odds of hurting someone else when youre driving after drinking are ridiculously high. If someone is driving after consuming a drug throw the book at them. But if they're just chilling at home that's a completely different matter.
- beefield 9y ago
  > The odds of hurting someone else when youre driving after drinking are ridiculously high. No. They are not ridiculously high. They are minuscule. "In 2015, nearly 1.1 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics. That’s one percent of the 111 million self-reported episodes of alcohol-impaired driving among U.S. adults each year"[1] Assuming that all the drunk drivers that hurt someone else are arrested and most arrested ones haven't hurt anyone, odds of hurting someone when drinking & driving are way less than 1%. (This is not to imply that I would like to allow drunk driving.) [1]https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impa...

Retra 9y ago

Violence isn't the only crime one can commit on drugs. Neglect and carelessness can also be criminal acts in some circumstances.

ghettoimp 9y ago
Agreed. Gah... it's such a mess. I totally get the argument that the drug war is insane---it creates a black market, fuels organized crime, puts harmless folks in jails, unfairly targets minorities, and so on. And I generally agree that people should be able to do what they want to their own selves. And yet, drugs are clearly bad, and I fear that legalizing them is a hugely normalizing move. I do like to drink, but it's clear that alcohol is absolutely everywhere in the US and that this causes huge collateral damage. Yes, it's absolutely possible to drink occasionally, and responsibly, and have a great time, and what's not to like? But people still very frequently kill each other by driving drunk, or they drink themselves to death and leave their families to deal with the mess, or they use alcohol as a tool for rape, or they simply drink more than they should, and more frequently, to the detriment of their health, careers, marriages, and general potential. It's generally expected and accepted that it is normal for high-school kids to be drinking, and maybe this seems OK to some folks, and maybe nothing can be done for it, but it bugs the hell out of me, because I have kids, and because, from my own personal experience, the line between recreation and dependence is very thin, indeed. Legal or not, pot is implicitly and increasingly acceptable almost everywhere. I hear that more than half of US adults have tried it. And I have friends, with little kids, who regularly use it and keep it in their homes. They provide excuses about why they need it and explanations of what it does for them. As an outsider, it seems like total and complete bullshit, and I don't want any part of it. Fortunately I'm old and stubborn enough to set my own, clear boundaries. But my kids are a lot younger than me, and not so inflexible. I very much don't want them to be pressured into alcohol and pot and all the rest when they are so young. I'll teach them as best I can, and they'll decide to do what they will. But as drug use becomes more normal, acceptable, and pervasive, I fear we'll inevitably see a lot more folks (especially kids) being pulled into it, and I think that will cause a lot of damage. Of course, hopefully I'm wrong.
- kelnos 9y ago