3 ms·

DRM doesn't and will never work. It only serves to annoy people that pay for the movie/game/whatever legitimately. It's against everything the W3C stands for.

DRM doesn't and will never work. It only serves to annoy people that pay for the movie/game/whatever legitimately. It's against everything the W3C stands for. You dont' have to support something just because it's happening. You fight it, you don't give into it.

skrowl 9y ago
I think you mean "against everything the W3C used to stand for" here. Clearly they stand for DRM now.
- _dev_pts_0 9y ago
  The problem with W3C and many other standards committee bodies: they often get infected by a few vocal, greedy corporate jerks whom manipulate and complicate standards. It's a similar anti-pattern as any social special interest group when SJWs infect them and make everyone cool want to leave: the Tragedy of the Undefended Commons. Us average "grassroots" folks need to new find ways to get involved more directly and edge out these corporate clones whom pose a threat to open society.
Analemma_ 9y ago
> DRM doesn't and will never work. It only serves to annoy people that pay for the movie/game/whatever legitimately. I never said otherwise, and in fact I totally agree. A big part of my annoyance at the outrage over EME is the automatic assumption that you must be pro-DRM if you're not joining the furor. > It's against everything the W3C stands for. No, that's you (and everyone on this thread) projecting. The W3C is, and has always been, an engineering interoperability organization developing a data interchange format. It's right in their mission statement: "The W3C mission is to lead the World Wide Web to its full potential by developing protocols and guidelines that ensure the long-term growth of the Web". Notice what isn't in that sentence. Everything about "freedom", "openness", etc. is other people projecting onto them. Before EME, web DRM is documented in the various plugin architectures. After EME, web DRM is documented in the HTML5 spec. From an engineering perspective, the difference is practically nil. The emotional overreaction here is just because of a perceived betrayal that isn't even real.
- Accacin 9y ago
  > No, that's you (and everyone on this thread) projecting. "The social value of the Web is that it enables human communication, commerce, and opportunities to share knowledge. One of W3C's primary goals is to make these benefits available to all people, whatever their hardware, software, network infrastructure, native language, culture, geographical location, or physical or mental ability." I don't know mate, that seems pretty clear to me. > ensure the long-term growth of the Web Without DRM the web will die? It seems to have been fine so far, would you not agree?
jhallenworld 9y ago
>will never work As in it can't be secure? Well it's tied in with trusted computing, see this Widevine document: https://storage.googleapis.com/wvdocs/Widevine_DRM_Architecture_Overview.pdf https://storage.googleapis.com/wvdocs/Widevine_DRM_Architect... If all of the decryption takes place in a "trusted zone" on "your" device, then it's pretty secure.
- 5ilv3r 9y ago
  Those are known to be exploitable though...
- ajross 9y ago
  "Pretty secure" needs to be qualified though. Yes: there are DRM implementations without known holes. There is, however, no DRM protected content I'm aware of anywhere that doesn't exist in a high quality unprotected form somewhere indexed by TPB or wherever. I mean: yes, average users can't crack their Netflix app. Everyone can still grab Stranger Things via torrent as soon as it drops. So does that count as "working?"
_dev_pts_0 9y ago
DRM is, for the most part, digital Prohibition. - Makes archiving unnecessarily difficult/impossible. - Micromanages legitimate use, including limiting legal usages. - Reduces or eliminates goodwill towards platforms, content distributors and content producers, e.g., it ain't cool. - Reduces sales through introducing artificial barriers to social network effects, i.e., torrenting often increases sales and popularity through lower-barrier social network effects. DRM-free fails if people don't pay for it, but this is rarely the case as the majority of people seek to be honest and support their favorite content producers to keep creating more. However, if like the RIAA and MPAA going after every single dime like corporate justice warriors, people can and will crack the DRM and share content or simply look elsewhere.
bzbarsky 9y ago
> DRM doesn't and will never work. It depends on what you mean by "work". See https://plus.google.com/+IanHickson/posts/iPmatxBYuj2 https://plus.google.com/+IanHickson/posts/iPmatxBYuj2 (linked elsewhere in this thread).

skrowl 9y ago

I think you mean "against everything the W3C used to stand for" here. Clearly they stand for DRM now.

_dev_pts_0 9y ago
The problem with W3C and many other standards committee bodies: they often get infected by a few vocal, greedy corporate jerks whom manipulate and complicate standards. It's a similar anti-pattern as any social special interest group when SJWs infect them and make everyone cool want to leave: the Tragedy of the Undefended Commons. Us average "grassroots" folks need to new find ways to get involved more directly and edge out these corporate clones whom pose a threat to open society.

Analemma_ 9y ago

> DRM doesn't and will never work. It only serves to annoy people that pay for the movie/game/whatever legitimately. I never said otherwise, and in fact I totally agree. A big part of my annoyance at the outrage over EME is the automatic assumption that you must be pro-DRM if you're not joining the furor. > It's against everything the W3C stands for. No, that's you (and everyone on this thread) projecting. The W3C is, and has always been, an engineering interoperability organization developing a data interchange format. It's right in their mission statement: "The W3C mission is to lead the World Wide Web to its full potential by developing protocols and guidelines that ensure the long-term growth of the Web". Notice what isn't in that sentence. Everything about "freedom", "openness", etc. is other people projecting onto them. Before EME, web DRM is documented in the various plugin architectures. After EME, web DRM is documented in the HTML5 spec. From an engineering perspective, the difference is practically nil. The emotional overreaction here is just because of a perceived betrayal that isn't even real.

Accacin 9y ago
> No, that's you (and everyone on this thread) projecting. "The social value of the Web is that it enables human communication, commerce, and opportunities to share knowledge. One of W3C's primary goals is to make these benefits available to all people, whatever their hardware, software, network infrastructure, native language, culture, geographical location, or physical or mental ability." I don't know mate, that seems pretty clear to me. > ensure the long-term growth of the Web Without DRM the web will die? It seems to have been fine so far, would you not agree?

jhallenworld 9y ago

>will never work As in it can't be secure? Well it's tied in with trusted computing, see this Widevine document: https://storage.googleapis.com/wvdocs/Widevine_DRM_Architecture_Overview.pdf https://storage.googleapis.com/wvdocs/Widevine_DRM_Architect... If all of the decryption takes place in a "trusted zone" on "your" device, then it's pretty secure.

5ilv3r 9y ago
Those are known to be exploitable though...
ajross 9y ago
"Pretty secure" needs to be qualified though. Yes: there are DRM implementations without known holes. There is, however, no DRM protected content I'm aware of anywhere that doesn't exist in a high quality unprotected form somewhere indexed by TPB or wherever. I mean: yes, average users can't crack their Netflix app. Everyone can still grab Stranger Things via torrent as soon as it drops. So does that count as "working?"

_dev_pts_0 9y ago

DRM is, for the most part, digital Prohibition. - Makes archiving unnecessarily difficult/impossible. - Micromanages legitimate use, including limiting legal usages. - Reduces or eliminates goodwill towards platforms, content distributors and content producers, e.g., it ain't cool. - Reduces sales through introducing artificial barriers to social network effects, i.e., torrenting often increases sales and popularity through lower-barrier social network effects. DRM-free fails if people don't pay for it, but this is rarely the case as the majority of people seek to be honest and support their favorite content producers to keep creating more. However, if like the RIAA and MPAA going after every single dime like corporate justice warriors, people can and will crack the DRM and share content or simply look elsewhere.

bzbarsky 9y ago

> DRM doesn't and will never work. It depends on what you mean by "work". See https://plus.google.com/+IanHickson/posts/iPmatxBYuj2 https://plus.google.com/+IanHickson/posts/iPmatxBYuj2 (linked elsewhere in this thread).