4 ms·

I don't understand what Snap gets out of this. Is it really worth it for them to be dismissed by the free-world as a totalitarian sycophant in exchange for wha

I don't understand what Snap gets out of this. Is it really worth it for them to be dismissed by the free-world as a totalitarian sycophant in exchange for whatever drop-in-the-bucket marketshare they get from Saudi Arabia? What does it mean to not comply with local laws in Saudi Arabia? A ban for Snapchat in that country? BFD!

subliminalpanda 9y ago
Not blocking would cause them to get censored; as a result FB would gain more market share through Instagram stories.
pesfandiar 9y ago
Doing business in/with a country requires following certain laws and unwritten rules (in this case regional politics). Are you suggesting American companies should completely avoid markets with unsavoury environments to some American citizens? If so, how far should it go? Should they stop serving Chinese customers because of the great firewall? How about privacy laws in EU? Many on the conservative spectrum don't hold those regulations in high regard. Please remember companies are there to maximize shareholders' value not to fight people's ideological wars.
- rhcom2 9y ago
  It can certainly hurt your bottom line to be viewed as a "totalitarian sycophant" by a much larger segment of customers.
  - pesfandiar 9y ago
    For sure. Specifically when the dollar value of brand damage becomes larger than the profits from that market, but we all have a bias to think too many people think like us. I should however acknowledge that social media have created a powerful tool for brand damage that gives more extreme ideologies the power to sway corporate policies.
- vtange 9y ago
  This is how you end up with a dreary, hyper-capitalistic, race-to-the-bottom world where money trumps all and all moral lines are crossed just so a company can increase its profit margin a slight bit. So if North Korea opened its doors just enough for global corporations to exploit North Korean labor, should we just hop in? Simply selling a product doesn't guarantee that a company will be in good standing with its customers. There are TED talks that even argue for companies to establish an identity beyond what and how they make money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPYeCltXpxw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPYeCltXpxw
  - honestlyreally 9y ago
    "A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business." - Henry Ford
2_listerine_pls 9y ago
Not getting blocked? I don't even need to read the note to realize that. They rather have that market share than none of it.
zeroxfe 9y ago
Usually this means that local Snap employees (if any) are put at risk. In countries like Saudi Arabia, it almost certainly is jail-time in very brutal facilities. (I don't know if they actually have employees there, but in general, this is a huge risk for many international corporations.)
- greendude29 9y ago
  > In countries like Saudi Arabia, it almost certainly is jail-time in very brutal facilities. Doesn't sound accurate at all. Please cite or present data.
  - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
    Can't cite, but last I read was that rule of law in Saudi Arabia was very arbitrary. Like if you actually had the wits and bravery to challenge something you could easily poke holes in the states arguments or due process, such as family court judge may be deciding case law in unrelated matters. And this is only because people don't do that.
  - KekDemaga 9y ago
    Here is amnesty international's account of one such prison: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Ulaysha_Prison#Conditions_of_detention https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Ulaysha_Prison#Conditions...
- hellbanner 9y ago
  Well, the alternative would be to not have employees in those countries and just ignore it as a market.
ben_jones 9y ago
Don't forget how much money Saudi Arabia has put into Uber. At the end of the day tech companies don't give a damn, its all about the money.
- thephyber 9y ago
  > At the end of the day tech companies don't give a damn, its all about the money. Do you know any $90Billion+ worth company that has impeccable ethics? It's the incentive structure of American capitalism.
- crispyambulance 9y ago
  You're right, and sadly, I don't think any of the kids wearing those ridiculous Snap "spectacles" will give a F anyway-- too busy taking insipid pics of each other with duck-face.
chillacy 9y ago
Woah drop in the bucket? Have you ever browsed the geo map on Snapchat? It's lit in Saudi Arabia! It seems like they have more activity than Europe and most US cities.

subliminalpanda 9y ago

Not blocking would cause them to get censored; as a result FB would gain more market share through Instagram stories.

pesfandiar 9y ago

Doing business in/with a country requires following certain laws and unwritten rules (in this case regional politics). Are you suggesting American companies should completely avoid markets with unsavoury environments to some American citizens? If so, how far should it go? Should they stop serving Chinese customers because of the great firewall? How about privacy laws in EU? Many on the conservative spectrum don't hold those regulations in high regard. Please remember companies are there to maximize shareholders' value not to fight people's ideological wars.

rhcom2 9y ago
It can certainly hurt your bottom line to be viewed as a "totalitarian sycophant" by a much larger segment of customers.
- pesfandiar 9y ago
  For sure. Specifically when the dollar value of brand damage becomes larger than the profits from that market, but we all have a bias to think too many people think like us. I should however acknowledge that social media have created a powerful tool for brand damage that gives more extreme ideologies the power to sway corporate policies.
vtange 9y ago
This is how you end up with a dreary, hyper-capitalistic, race-to-the-bottom world where money trumps all and all moral lines are crossed just so a company can increase its profit margin a slight bit. So if North Korea opened its doors just enough for global corporations to exploit North Korean labor, should we just hop in? Simply selling a product doesn't guarantee that a company will be in good standing with its customers. There are TED talks that even argue for companies to establish an identity beyond what and how they make money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPYeCltXpxw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPYeCltXpxw
- honestlyreally 9y ago
  "A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business." - Henry Ford

2_listerine_pls 9y ago

Not getting blocked? I don't even need to read the note to realize that. They rather have that market share than none of it.

zeroxfe 9y ago

Usually this means that local Snap employees (if any) are put at risk. In countries like Saudi Arabia, it almost certainly is jail-time in very brutal facilities. (I don't know if they actually have employees there, but in general, this is a huge risk for many international corporations.)

greendude29 9y ago
> In countries like Saudi Arabia, it almost certainly is jail-time in very brutal facilities. Doesn't sound accurate at all. Please cite or present data.
- ringaroundthetx 9y ago
  Can't cite, but last I read was that rule of law in Saudi Arabia was very arbitrary. Like if you actually had the wits and bravery to challenge something you could easily poke holes in the states arguments or due process, such as family court judge may be deciding case law in unrelated matters. And this is only because people don't do that.
- KekDemaga 9y ago
  Here is amnesty international's account of one such prison: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Ulaysha_Prison#Conditions_of_detention https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Ulaysha_Prison#Conditions...
hellbanner 9y ago
Well, the alternative would be to not have employees in those countries and just ignore it as a market.

ben_jones 9y ago

Don't forget how much money Saudi Arabia has put into Uber. At the end of the day tech companies don't give a damn, its all about the money.

thephyber 9y ago
> At the end of the day tech companies don't give a damn, its all about the money. Do you know any $90Billion+ worth company that has impeccable ethics? It's the incentive structure of American capitalism.
crispyambulance 9y ago
You're right, and sadly, I don't think any of the kids wearing those ridiculous Snap "spectacles" will give a F anyway-- too busy taking insipid pics of each other with duck-face.

chillacy 9y ago

Woah drop in the bucket? Have you ever browsed the geo map on Snapchat? It's lit in Saudi Arabia! It seems like they have more activity than Europe and most US cities.