4 ms·

One of the odd consequences of urban farming, I just realized, is that the traditionally correct answer for this kind of pest control (a .22 or a pellet gun) is

One of the odd consequences of urban farming, I just realized, is that the traditionally correct answer for this kind of pest control (a .22 or a pellet gun) is no longer really an option. Drowning is a lot harder.

pavel_lishin 9y ago
> the traditionally correct answer for this kind of pest control (a .22 or a pellet gun) is no longer really an option. I think a .22 would be reasonable in a suburban environment, as long as you've got your target critter pinned down, and aren't just trying to shoot it off the fence. Plus, it seems like it would have been a perfectly valid alternative for the author, if not for her gun views. > Drowning is a lot harder. Seems less humane, too. Aren't there better options than drowning? Can't you stick 'em in a bag and use a car exhaust?
- hprotagonist 9y ago
  you can. Or in a confined environment with dry ice (which is just CO2). What the author describes in this piece is the inadvertent cruelty that basically has to happen when you lack the experience for a clean kill. Duct-taping a knife to the end of a stick is, under any other circumstance, just kind of funny. In this case, it's close to unethical.
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    The whole time I was reading that, I was thinking to myself - do you not own an axe that you can bring down on the possum's neck? But I guess I'm still thinking in the context of my parents' house where I grew up, where you can just go out to the garage and stumble over half-a-dozen improvised mammal murder instruments on the way to the one you specifically had in mind.
    - tptacek 9y ago
      It's tangled up in chicken wire, so an axe presents most of the same problems as a shovel.
      - SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
        Pickaxe would work though. Cordless drill would work but be very messy & inhumane. If you have one a bow & arrow works fine, and is a lot more likely to be legal than a gun. The only disadvantage there is training, and a stationary target at short range is not that hard to hit.
    - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
      What about a BFH? Like how do you run any sort of "farm" and not wind up owning at least one? I get that not everyone needs to split wood but a BFH is even more basic of a tool than that.
      - GlenTheMachine 9y ago
        "Big Fucking Hammer", I believe. Not recommended for killing possums BTW.
        dsfyu404ed 9y ago
        >Not recommended for killing possums BTW. It would work on the first try which is a massive step up from everything the author tried.
        GlenTheMachine 9y ago
        Yeah, but possums carry rabies, among other nasty diseases. Using a BFH on a possum is a recipe for bad things happening to you.
      - detaro 9y ago
        BFH?
  - 13of40 9y ago
    I think a live trap, a plastic bag, and a single-use helium tank from the party store would do it pretty humanely. CO2 is cheaper but it causes a panic reaction when the animal breathes it. I tried CO2 on a feral tom cat that was beating up my other cats several years ago, and it definitely didn't just go to sleep.
    - shoover 9y ago
      It also depends on the species and flow rate. IIRC rodents handle CO2 ok but rabbits are very aversive. From https://research.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/10/guideline03.pdf https://research.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/...: The 2013 edition of the American Veterinary Medical Association Guidelines for the Euthanasia of Animals concludes that CO2 euthanasia is humane only when rodents are exposed to a gradually rising concentration that will cause narcosis (loss of consciousness due to the depression of cerebral activity) before the sensitive respiratory tissues are exposed to high concentrations. An optimal flow rate for CO2 euthanasia systems should displace 10%-30% of the chamber (or cage) volume per minute The full AVMA guidelines are here: https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf
    - MengerSponge 9y ago
      Use nitrogen instead of helium. It's cheap and is quite effective as an asphyxiant. Also, it's basically impossible to "waste" nitrogen.
    - hprotagonist 9y ago
      Hm. CO2 euthanasia is de rigeur for culling experimental rodents.
      - LolWolf 9y ago
        You're right, but SOP for euthanizing rodents is CO2 after anesthetizing them.
        hprotagonist 9y ago
  - asciimo 9y ago
    The entire endeavor is unethical, from choosing to raise chickens to slaughtering a parade of mammals. None of this is necessary for the well-being of someone who "spends all her hard-earned money on overpriced coffee and pizza."
    - GlenTheMachine 9y ago
      Local agriculture is one of the most ethical practices around. For one, it's far better for the environment, for a wide range of reasons starting with the improved living conditions for the chickens vice a Perdue chicken factory, and ending with a dramatically lower carbon footprint. In addition, it erases the curtain we as a society have drawn over where food comes from. Society cannot make ethical decisions about what to eat, how food should be produced, where it should be produced, and whether/how much waste to accept - because most people have no idea how the food gets from the soil onto their plates or into their refrigerators. Erasing our connection with the land and farming is what is unethical about this situation.
      - pavel_lishin 9y ago
        > Local agriculture is one of the most ethical practices around I've heard arguments to the contrary, based on the efficiency of scale. Basically, it's better for the environment to grow most of your food in one place, and then ship it into a dense city, rather than everyone growing a bit of what they need, and then schlepping around in a car to gather up your other various supplies. In this specific example, I'd be curious about what sort of carbon footprint is generated by ordering chicken feed, vs. having farm eggs shipped to a local store you can walk to.
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      Why is raising chickens unethical in her situation?
      - asciimo 9y ago
        Because it's completely unnecessary. She admits that there are limitless cheaper alternatives available. Yet she exploits these sentient beings for little more than a hobby.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > I think a .22 would be reasonable in a suburban environment It's illegal in many, possibly most, urban and suburban environments, as pest control tends not to be an exception to “discharging a firearm within city limits” laws.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    Does such ordinance covers private property? I know quite a few people that have setup bullet traps in their basements and pretty much have an indoor range even in restricted states.
    - larrik 9y ago
      They usually have ordinances saying you need to be really away from any one else's structures, at the very least. Way too far for suburbs, generally.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > Does such ordinance covers private property? Generally, they cover the entire incorporated area of any city in the jurisdiction, though there tend to be exceptions for qualified ranges as well as circumstances like self-defense.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
soared 9y ago
Breakbarrel air rifle can kill squirrels and rabbits, not sure if they'd take down a possum though.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  It depends on range and accuracy. You'd be surprised what a cheap Chinese under-lever will take down.

pavel_lishin 9y ago

> the traditionally correct answer for this kind of pest control (a .22 or a pellet gun) is no longer really an option. I think a .22 would be reasonable in a suburban environment, as long as you've got your target critter pinned down, and aren't just trying to shoot it off the fence. Plus, it seems like it would have been a perfectly valid alternative for the author, if not for her gun views. > Drowning is a lot harder. Seems less humane, too. Aren't there better options than drowning? Can't you stick 'em in a bag and use a car exhaust?

hprotagonist 9y ago
you can. Or in a confined environment with dry ice (which is just CO2). What the author describes in this piece is the inadvertent cruelty that basically has to happen when you lack the experience for a clean kill. Duct-taping a knife to the end of a stick is, under any other circumstance, just kind of funny. In this case, it's close to unethical.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  The whole time I was reading that, I was thinking to myself - do you not own an axe that you can bring down on the possum's neck? But I guess I'm still thinking in the context of my parents' house where I grew up, where you can just go out to the garage and stumble over half-a-dozen improvised mammal murder instruments on the way to the one you specifically had in mind.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    It's tangled up in chicken wire, so an axe presents most of the same problems as a shovel.
    - SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
      Pickaxe would work though. Cordless drill would work but be very messy & inhumane. If you have one a bow & arrow works fine, and is a lot more likely to be legal than a gun. The only disadvantage there is training, and a stationary target at short range is not that hard to hit.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    What about a BFH? Like how do you run any sort of "farm" and not wind up owning at least one? I get that not everyone needs to split wood but a BFH is even more basic of a tool than that.
    - GlenTheMachine 9y ago
      "Big Fucking Hammer", I believe. Not recommended for killing possums BTW.
      - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
        >Not recommended for killing possums BTW. It would work on the first try which is a massive step up from everything the author tried.
        GlenTheMachine 9y ago
        Yeah, but possums carry rabies, among other nasty diseases. Using a BFH on a possum is a recipe for bad things happening to you.
    - detaro 9y ago
      BFH?
- 13of40 9y ago
  I think a live trap, a plastic bag, and a single-use helium tank from the party store would do it pretty humanely. CO2 is cheaper but it causes a panic reaction when the animal breathes it. I tried CO2 on a feral tom cat that was beating up my other cats several years ago, and it definitely didn't just go to sleep.
  - shoover 9y ago
    It also depends on the species and flow rate. IIRC rodents handle CO2 ok but rabbits are very aversive. From https://research.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/10/guideline03.pdf https://research.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/...: The 2013 edition of the American Veterinary Medical Association Guidelines for the Euthanasia of Animals concludes that CO2 euthanasia is humane only when rodents are exposed to a gradually rising concentration that will cause narcosis (loss of consciousness due to the depression of cerebral activity) before the sensitive respiratory tissues are exposed to high concentrations. An optimal flow rate for CO2 euthanasia systems should displace 10%-30% of the chamber (or cage) volume per minute The full AVMA guidelines are here: https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf
  - MengerSponge 9y ago
    Use nitrogen instead of helium. It's cheap and is quite effective as an asphyxiant. Also, it's basically impossible to "waste" nitrogen.
  - hprotagonist 9y ago
    Hm. CO2 euthanasia is de rigeur for culling experimental rodents.
    - LolWolf 9y ago
      You're right, but SOP for euthanizing rodents is CO2 after anesthetizing them.
      - hprotagonist 9y ago
- asciimo 9y ago
  The entire endeavor is unethical, from choosing to raise chickens to slaughtering a parade of mammals. None of this is necessary for the well-being of someone who "spends all her hard-earned money on overpriced coffee and pizza."
  - GlenTheMachine 9y ago
    Local agriculture is one of the most ethical practices around. For one, it's far better for the environment, for a wide range of reasons starting with the improved living conditions for the chickens vice a Perdue chicken factory, and ending with a dramatically lower carbon footprint. In addition, it erases the curtain we as a society have drawn over where food comes from. Society cannot make ethical decisions about what to eat, how food should be produced, where it should be produced, and whether/how much waste to accept - because most people have no idea how the food gets from the soil onto their plates or into their refrigerators. Erasing our connection with the land and farming is what is unethical about this situation.
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      > Local agriculture is one of the most ethical practices around I've heard arguments to the contrary, based on the efficiency of scale. Basically, it's better for the environment to grow most of your food in one place, and then ship it into a dense city, rather than everyone growing a bit of what they need, and then schlepping around in a car to gather up your other various supplies. In this specific example, I'd be curious about what sort of carbon footprint is generated by ordering chicken feed, vs. having farm eggs shipped to a local store you can walk to.
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    Why is raising chickens unethical in her situation?
    - asciimo 9y ago
      Because it's completely unnecessary. She admits that there are limitless cheaper alternatives available. Yet she exploits these sentient beings for little more than a hobby.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> I think a .22 would be reasonable in a suburban environment It's illegal in many, possibly most, urban and suburban environments, as pest control tends not to be an exception to “discharging a firearm within city limits” laws.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  Does such ordinance covers private property? I know quite a few people that have setup bullet traps in their basements and pretty much have an indoor range even in restricted states.
  - larrik 9y ago
    They usually have ordinances saying you need to be really away from any one else's structures, at the very least. Way too far for suburbs, generally.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Does such ordinance covers private property? Generally, they cover the entire incorporated area of any city in the jurisdiction, though there tend to be exceptions for qualified ranges as well as circumstances like self-defense.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

soared 9y ago

Breakbarrel air rifle can kill squirrels and rabbits, not sure if they'd take down a possum though.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago
It depends on range and accuracy. You'd be surprised what a cheap Chinese under-lever will take down.