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The article starts with a question which asks about the present very clearly, but then answers a different question of what philosophers did (i.e the past) with

by ue_ 9y ago

The article starts with a question which asks about the present very clearly, but then answers a different question of what philosophers did (i.e the past) without any reference to modern philosophers. Modern philosophers analyse older philosophical work and reply to contemporaries; for example there is an ongoing debate about the difference between "letting die" and "killing", and if it is an ethical difference then what significance it holds. Other philosophy seeks to blend together with sociology and psychology to analyse our current life (for example, the work of Karl Marx and the Frankfurt School), for example to ask what is capitalism and to what extent it is desirable. Some other philosophy works with economics to examine classical and modern ideas of the value of commodoties and its ontology. Some philosophers concern themselves with the ethics of killing and eating animals and by extension humans. Other philosophy works through linguistics to formulate theories of what we mean when we speak and the limits of language to describe reality. And other philosophy involves itself with natural science to formulate theories of causation and being. Yet other philosophy does other things. It's a broad field, and with advances in all related fields it's become a lot broader than it was since the enlightenment, even considering how natural science is no longer considered a philosophy.

euyyn 9y ago
I see the importance of exploring those questions, for they pertain to current movements and political issues, like veganism or euthanasia. So (from my position of now knowing the work of any modern philosopher) have such philosophical explorations, in the past decades or century, produced answers? In the sense that, have they made a change in the way these important issues developed? What are the biggest ways they have affected other fields?
- krrishd 9y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted, I'd like to see an answer to this as well. I'd suspect that they've provided quite a few important answers but I'm curious how much power/influence these ideas had in their times.
  - ue_ 9y ago
    Some HNers have a tendency to want to downvote without leaving an explanation as to why or a rebuttal to the point; one would think to expect better behaviour from those who the HN moderators thought it fit to trust with the power to downvote. It does not surprise me that having more than 500 internet points does not a curteous or reasonable person make.
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  It seems to me that the modern trend is not so much to answer specific questions like a mathematician proving a difficult theorem, but to identify and validate new analytical perspectives. A practical application of this is in the creation of new systems with which to evaluate our situations and make decisions. Since philosophy often involves questioning basic assumptions that almost everyone takes for granted it retains the possibility to be disruptive or even dangerous.
- ue_ 9y ago
  I wouldn't say that modern philosophers, or even old philosophers, have had much of an effect on current legislative decisions concerning things like euthanasia. As to what extent they have influenced real communities I also don't know about veganism (aside from perhaps Pinker, though again I don't know of his influence) but modern philosophy (since 1950s or so) has been "all the rage" within left-wing communities, most visibly the work of Slavoj Zizek who is seen as a "superstar Marxist philosopher". I'm under the impression that philosophical investigation has been largely ignored in science, though I don't have enough information to give a definitive answer. Principles in law seem to me to be unclear and not guided along any particular philosophy, despite in the UK at least PPE (politics, philosophy, economics) being a common choice of university degree for politicians. I have seen utterly terrible and fallacious and evidence-lacking arguments used to create hideous laws, as the arguments are public record in England and Wales. I'd say that philosophy doesn't have nearly as much impact as it should do, and anyone who disagrees with this should recognise that the ability to think critically is taught in any and all philosophy.
  - ue_ 9y ago
    Why the downvotes for my comment? And why is this comment downvoted? If you don't think my comment above was substantive or helpful, please tell me so that I can improve the quality of my posts.
    - grzm 9y ago
      Likely your second comment was downvoted because it's specifically against the guidelines: > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - ue_ 9y ago
        I don't think it does make boring reading at all. In fact, it makes very important reading - the strange drive-by downvoting culture on HN deserves to be called out. And as I have noted elsewhere, those are merely guidelines; if they are to be rules then they ought to be called as such.
- matt4077 9y ago
  The "difference between killing and letting die" has quite a lot of importance in "real life". One example that come to mind are the intense discussions in some countries about the possible decision to shoot down a highjacked plane (killing some to save many). It's official policy in the US, but the German Supreme Court considered it unconstitutional when they examined a law intended to codify it. Another example is the discussion about the algorithm's decisions in kill some/save many scenarios in autonomous driving. In philosophy, the Trolley Problem and its many variants are about exactly these sort of problems. I wouldn't say that philosophy has given any "answers" to these problems, but the debate (and politics/law/software) would certainly be different, or just not happening, without these efforts. Effective Altruism is another well-known concept that can be called "applied philosophy". As are "responsibility to protect" ("do world power have a duty to protect people in other countries from, for example, genocide"), and anything in economics and criminal law that requires some sort of common understanding of what is "just".

by ue_ 9y ago

euyyn 9y ago

I see the importance of exploring those questions, for they pertain to current movements and political issues, like veganism or euthanasia. So (from my position of now knowing the work of any modern philosopher) have such philosophical explorations, in the past decades or century, produced answers? In the sense that, have they made a change in the way these important issues developed? What are the biggest ways they have affected other fields?

krrishd 9y ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted, I'd like to see an answer to this as well. I'd suspect that they've provided quite a few important answers but I'm curious how much power/influence these ideas had in their times.
- ue_ 9y ago
  Some HNers have a tendency to want to downvote without leaving an explanation as to why or a rebuttal to the point; one would think to expect better behaviour from those who the HN moderators thought it fit to trust with the power to downvote. It does not surprise me that having more than 500 internet points does not a curteous or reasonable person make.
anigbrowl 9y ago
It seems to me that the modern trend is not so much to answer specific questions like a mathematician proving a difficult theorem, but to identify and validate new analytical perspectives. A practical application of this is in the creation of new systems with which to evaluate our situations and make decisions. Since philosophy often involves questioning basic assumptions that almost everyone takes for granted it retains the possibility to be disruptive or even dangerous.
ue_ 9y ago
I wouldn't say that modern philosophers, or even old philosophers, have had much of an effect on current legislative decisions concerning things like euthanasia. As to what extent they have influenced real communities I also don't know about veganism (aside from perhaps Pinker, though again I don't know of his influence) but modern philosophy (since 1950s or so) has been "all the rage" within left-wing communities, most visibly the work of Slavoj Zizek who is seen as a "superstar Marxist philosopher". I'm under the impression that philosophical investigation has been largely ignored in science, though I don't have enough information to give a definitive answer. Principles in law seem to me to be unclear and not guided along any particular philosophy, despite in the UK at least PPE (politics, philosophy, economics) being a common choice of university degree for politicians. I have seen utterly terrible and fallacious and evidence-lacking arguments used to create hideous laws, as the arguments are public record in England and Wales. I'd say that philosophy doesn't have nearly as much impact as it should do, and anyone who disagrees with this should recognise that the ability to think critically is taught in any and all philosophy.
- ue_ 9y ago
  Why the downvotes for my comment? And why is this comment downvoted? If you don't think my comment above was substantive or helpful, please tell me so that I can improve the quality of my posts.
  - grzm 9y ago
    Likely your second comment was downvoted because it's specifically against the guidelines: > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - ue_ 9y ago
      I don't think it does make boring reading at all. In fact, it makes very important reading - the strange drive-by downvoting culture on HN deserves to be called out. And as I have noted elsewhere, those are merely guidelines; if they are to be rules then they ought to be called as such.
matt4077 9y ago
The "difference between killing and letting die" has quite a lot of importance in "real life". One example that come to mind are the intense discussions in some countries about the possible decision to shoot down a highjacked plane (killing some to save many). It's official policy in the US, but the German Supreme Court considered it unconstitutional when they examined a law intended to codify it. Another example is the discussion about the algorithm's decisions in kill some/save many scenarios in autonomous driving. In philosophy, the Trolley Problem and its many variants are about exactly these sort of problems. I wouldn't say that philosophy has given any "answers" to these problems, but the debate (and politics/law/software) would certainly be different, or just not happening, without these efforts. Effective Altruism is another well-known concept that can be called "applied philosophy". As are "responsibility to protect" ("do world power have a duty to protect people in other countries from, for example, genocide"), and anything in economics and criminal law that requires some sort of common understanding of what is "just".