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Yup. It's one of those case we want something to be true, but really, it isn't (always, anyway). Sure, some people are absurdly productive on 25 hours a week. G

by shados 9y ago

Yup. It's one of those case we want something to be true, but really, it isn't (always, anyway). Sure, some people are absurdly productive on 25 hours a week. Good for them! Keep at it! Others though, not so much. In programming, you also get better by doing it more. So even if it's not "for work", if you have side projects, you will (generally) be better than those who don't, from pure practice. The super high salaries don't just reflect a higher demand: they also reflect an expectation of higher expected output than in other professions. It's implied that you'll spend the time to stay on top of things, stay up to date with technology and other things that may require more time than your weekly allocation of jira tickets. There's a guy in my team who probably works 60+ hours a week. I warned him about burning out, told him he didn't have to (as his manager), etc. He does it for fun. Because he enjoys it. And he's amazingly productive. He's not doing it for a promotion either, he's already pretty much at the highest level the role can be. And while a lot of people SAY they are "more productive" working less, often it's not true. One of my buddies keep spouting that, and honestly doesn't get much done. Another also repeats it AND is the most productive person I know. Essentially, your millage will vary, but only rarely are people at the very tip top manage to do more with less time. Some do, but they're essentially gods among mortals (or lying to themselves about it). Personally, I generally work about 40 hours a week, but I don't pretend I'm doing more than others. I just do what I feel I'm paid for while also pursuing my career goals to go up the ladder by doing what's best for my employer.

blub 9y ago
Your 60+ hours per week guy probably doesn't have much of a life outside software engineering. He'd be working between 8,5-12h/day, depending on how many workdays he puts in. At that level of time investment, he doesn't have time for a romantic relationship. Almost no one would be crazy to accept so little attention, but even if they would it would be a weak & shallow relationship. They probably don't have time for friendships or even spending time with their family and socialising, which will take its psychological toll. Unless they magically find time to do some sports and take care not to sit in a chair all time, they're stressing their body a lot, which could lead to a weaker immune system and potentially musculo-skeletal problems. In conclusion, one can behave like a machine and work 60+ hour weeks, but they're literally trading away their life in order to achieve that. Get ready to search for a replacement or two for when/if they burn out.
- dx034 9y ago
  While I'm not a fan of 60h per week, I'd disagree here. If you work 12h per day you'll still have several hours in the evening and the whole weekend for your partner. From my observations, relationships don't depend on how much people work, they depend on how much of their free time both partners like to spend together.
  - pc86 9y ago
    If you're willing to sacrifice other aspects, sure. And if your partner is willing to be secondary to your job, or they have a similar schedule. Figure 30-60 minutes getting ready in the morning, a 30 minute commute, a 12 hour work day (12.5 with lunch!), a 30 minute commute back, 30 minutes for dinner, and 8 hours of sleep. That's about 22-23 hours of the day. Assuming you spend a grand total of 1-2 hours with your partner, and you do all the things you need to do to be a functioning adult (laundry, dishes, home maintenance if you don't rent, etc) on the weekends. Or you can work at a company that respects its employees and is close by. From the time I leave my house to the time I come back is less than 9 hours every day, and that includes my commute and 45-60 minutes for lunch (not at my desk).
  - nunez 9y ago
    Some people need a LOT of time with their partners while others need very, very little. Translated: some people can handle an 80+ hr/week lifestyle, while others can't fathom it at all.
- mancerayder 9y ago
  What you just said isn't said often enough. If someone works 12 hour days, and then implements the, and it hurts me to even type it out, "lifestyle hacks" to further squeeze the sponge of productive hours, the sacrifice they make to their own personal lives is a big toll. 12 hour days, plus commute, plus 8 hours of sleep leaves little time for socializing, hobbies and let alone exercise. But the bigger tragedy is, on a team where there might be competition (eg., a bonus), the guy pissing his life into his work is going to get the accolades and bonuses, or at least it looks that way, which takes a morale toll on the other members of the group. It leads to a race to the bottom. This might be okay when you're junior, first starting out, or a partner, or someone with significant equity (read: in a few years they won't need to work), but for everyone else, there is a very high risk of a toxic work situation. To the person above who said that we're highly paid and so forth and expected to perform - well we're not paid because we're expected to perform highly, we're paid because laws supply and demand at present benefit us. If a situation should arise where the balance of the scales reverts, I assure you you'd still be completing your beloved 12 hour days with a much smaller salary.

by shados 9y ago

blub 9y ago

Your 60+ hours per week guy probably doesn't have much of a life outside software engineering. He'd be working between 8,5-12h/day, depending on how many workdays he puts in. At that level of time investment, he doesn't have time for a romantic relationship. Almost no one would be crazy to accept so little attention, but even if they would it would be a weak & shallow relationship. They probably don't have time for friendships or even spending time with their family and socialising, which will take its psychological toll. Unless they magically find time to do some sports and take care not to sit in a chair all time, they're stressing their body a lot, which could lead to a weaker immune system and potentially musculo-skeletal problems. In conclusion, one can behave like a machine and work 60+ hour weeks, but they're literally trading away their life in order to achieve that. Get ready to search for a replacement or two for when/if they burn out.

dx034 9y ago
While I'm not a fan of 60h per week, I'd disagree here. If you work 12h per day you'll still have several hours in the evening and the whole weekend for your partner. From my observations, relationships don't depend on how much people work, they depend on how much of their free time both partners like to spend together.
- pc86 9y ago
  If you're willing to sacrifice other aspects, sure. And if your partner is willing to be secondary to your job, or they have a similar schedule. Figure 30-60 minutes getting ready in the morning, a 30 minute commute, a 12 hour work day (12.5 with lunch!), a 30 minute commute back, 30 minutes for dinner, and 8 hours of sleep. That's about 22-23 hours of the day. Assuming you spend a grand total of 1-2 hours with your partner, and you do all the things you need to do to be a functioning adult (laundry, dishes, home maintenance if you don't rent, etc) on the weekends. Or you can work at a company that respects its employees and is close by. From the time I leave my house to the time I come back is less than 9 hours every day, and that includes my commute and 45-60 minutes for lunch (not at my desk).
- nunez 9y ago
  Some people need a LOT of time with their partners while others need very, very little. Translated: some people can handle an 80+ hr/week lifestyle, while others can't fathom it at all.
mancerayder 9y ago
What you just said isn't said often enough. If someone works 12 hour days, and then implements the, and it hurts me to even type it out, "lifestyle hacks" to further squeeze the sponge of productive hours, the sacrifice they make to their own personal lives is a big toll. 12 hour days, plus commute, plus 8 hours of sleep leaves little time for socializing, hobbies and let alone exercise. But the bigger tragedy is, on a team where there might be competition (eg., a bonus), the guy pissing his life into his work is going to get the accolades and bonuses, or at least it looks that way, which takes a morale toll on the other members of the group. It leads to a race to the bottom. This might be okay when you're junior, first starting out, or a partner, or someone with significant equity (read: in a few years they won't need to work), but for everyone else, there is a very high risk of a toxic work situation. To the person above who said that we're highly paid and so forth and expected to perform - well we're not paid because we're expected to perform highly, we're paid because laws supply and demand at present benefit us. If a situation should arise where the balance of the scales reverts, I assure you you'd still be completing your beloved 12 hour days with a much smaller salary.