4 ms·

From the recent rumors it seems the retro will "just" be a 2017 thinkpad + old keyboard. Cool, but not enough for me. I guess I got my expectations too high wh

by Leimi 9y ago

From the recent rumors it seems the retro will "just" be a 2017 thinkpad + old keyboard. Cool, but not enough for me. I guess I got my expectations too high when Lenovo put out surveys asking about screen ratio, status led, thinklights, etc. a couple years ago.

walterbell 9y ago
It's sad that the only place to get a HiDPI 4:3 screen today is from ... Apple on the iPad Pro 2 12.9". They have no problem getting that aspect ratio from their panel suppliers. Now we need a Thinkpad Retro keyboard case for the iPP2. Until then, the Logitech Create Pro case has the best iPP2 keyboard.
- tannhaeuser 9y ago
  Why is 4:3 so important to both of you and many others (I'm not trolling but genuinely interested)? I'm on an 13" XPS right now which has a 16:9, supposedly "consumer laptop" ratio, and I'm not missing anything, and I'm as much of a hardcore terminal, touch typist and vi guy as can be. When I bought mine early last year, I had the luck that both the XPS 13 and the Thinkpad Carbon was in store so I could test it "hands-on". While the keyboard certainly was more elaborate, had more keytravel and all, it wasn't really subjectively better than the XPS's. The display on the Carbon, though, was really a POS compared to the XPS's. I'm guessing it was the TN display; it was just awful and not something I would tolerate on a notebook for the kind of money they're asking.
  - chx 9y ago
    This I don't get either. Having an 1920 x 1200 monitor is nice of course but I am not getting bent into pretzels if the Anniversary 25 is "just" 1920 x 1080 or some other 16:9 res. I have a T420s hacked to full HD (someone else did the hacking) and frankly, it's fine to this day, six years in. Looking into the far future, it won't be enough because the 16GB RAM will limit and it would be awfully nice to have Thunderbolt 3 so that I can play the occasional game or two. I really hope Mantiz will actually succeed in launching their MXM based external GPU, would be superb. But the disappointment is understandable. Check the word cloud on http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-thinkpad-survey-keyboard http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-thinkpad-survey-keyboar... -- two years ago would be consumers of Lenovo (and surely past consumers too) have literally begged for a thinkpad with ... keyboard and ... screen. Now I hear on various forums from Lenovo apologists that a custom panel, status LEDs etc would've been expensive but really, if it is expensive, why not run a crowdfunding campaign to see whether there's interest? They might have been positively surprised. But oh well. As I posted elsewhere, the keyboard winter has been upon us since 2012 and I am grateful for any little thaw. The last laptop with a usable keyboard layout was the 2011 ThinkPad generation with Sandy Bridge CPU , the last usable phone was the Droid 4. Late October this year we are getting the ThinkPad Anniversary 25 and a proper looking keyboard mod for the Moto Z. This is our last hurrah. The curtain has dropped, this is the last encore and then this era is over. I am sad, but it is what it is. I will get at least five years out of the Anniversary 25 (that's the longest warranty I can buy) but I hope for ten and if I am lucky then the Moto keyboard will last five years too. Maybe eye tracking grows up by then? Voice takes over? Let's hope.
    - tannhaeuser 9y ago
      It's not the end of the world. I really like Thinkpads of old, but can do without the clunky optical and legacy ports. And as I said, Dell's keyboard (on the XPS at least) are really working well for me. My point of reference for what a keyboard can be is the Model M keyboard (no less!) I had the pleasure of using early to mid 90's. Compared to that experience the difference between a ThinkPad (any generation) and a good non-ThinkPad keyboard is gradual at best.
      - chx 9y ago
        "The XPS 15's keyboard still maintains the same plastic keys with 1.3mm of travel, which is a bit on the shallow side." I do not see dedicated Home - End - PgUp - PgDn buttons either. It's vital. Look at my chosen desktop keyboard https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61gEPhEChqL._SL1200_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61gEPhEChqL... see something next to the arrows? Matias Ergo Pro , mounted vertically.
  - scotu 9y ago
    If you think about the screen real estate as 1 column, 16:9 is too wide to fill it up with said column (a narrower column is easier to read/follow) and at the same time a lot of UI usually occupies the height of the screen that is the scarce resource in this case (compared to width). If you start using 2 columns the advantage of a 4:3 is less apparent in my opinion

by Leimi 9y ago

walterbell 9y ago

It's sad that the only place to get a HiDPI 4:3 screen today is from ... Apple on the iPad Pro 2 12.9". They have no problem getting that aspect ratio from their panel suppliers. Now we need a Thinkpad Retro keyboard case for the iPP2. Until then, the Logitech Create Pro case has the best iPP2 keyboard.

tannhaeuser 9y ago
Why is 4:3 so important to both of you and many others (I'm not trolling but genuinely interested)? I'm on an 13" XPS right now which has a 16:9, supposedly "consumer laptop" ratio, and I'm not missing anything, and I'm as much of a hardcore terminal, touch typist and vi guy as can be. When I bought mine early last year, I had the luck that both the XPS 13 and the Thinkpad Carbon was in store so I could test it "hands-on". While the keyboard certainly was more elaborate, had more keytravel and all, it wasn't really subjectively better than the XPS's. The display on the Carbon, though, was really a POS compared to the XPS's. I'm guessing it was the TN display; it was just awful and not something I would tolerate on a notebook for the kind of money they're asking.
- chx 9y ago
  This I don't get either. Having an 1920 x 1200 monitor is nice of course but I am not getting bent into pretzels if the Anniversary 25 is "just" 1920 x 1080 or some other 16:9 res. I have a T420s hacked to full HD (someone else did the hacking) and frankly, it's fine to this day, six years in. Looking into the far future, it won't be enough because the 16GB RAM will limit and it would be awfully nice to have Thunderbolt 3 so that I can play the occasional game or two. I really hope Mantiz will actually succeed in launching their MXM based external GPU, would be superb. But the disappointment is understandable. Check the word cloud on http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-thinkpad-survey-keyboard http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-thinkpad-survey-keyboar... -- two years ago would be consumers of Lenovo (and surely past consumers too) have literally begged for a thinkpad with ... keyboard and ... screen. Now I hear on various forums from Lenovo apologists that a custom panel, status LEDs etc would've been expensive but really, if it is expensive, why not run a crowdfunding campaign to see whether there's interest? They might have been positively surprised. But oh well. As I posted elsewhere, the keyboard winter has been upon us since 2012 and I am grateful for any little thaw. The last laptop with a usable keyboard layout was the 2011 ThinkPad generation with Sandy Bridge CPU , the last usable phone was the Droid 4. Late October this year we are getting the ThinkPad Anniversary 25 and a proper looking keyboard mod for the Moto Z. This is our last hurrah. The curtain has dropped, this is the last encore and then this era is over. I am sad, but it is what it is. I will get at least five years out of the Anniversary 25 (that's the longest warranty I can buy) but I hope for ten and if I am lucky then the Moto keyboard will last five years too. Maybe eye tracking grows up by then? Voice takes over? Let's hope.
  - tannhaeuser 9y ago
    It's not the end of the world. I really like Thinkpads of old, but can do without the clunky optical and legacy ports. And as I said, Dell's keyboard (on the XPS at least) are really working well for me. My point of reference for what a keyboard can be is the Model M keyboard (no less!) I had the pleasure of using early to mid 90's. Compared to that experience the difference between a ThinkPad (any generation) and a good non-ThinkPad keyboard is gradual at best.
    - chx 9y ago
      "The XPS 15's keyboard still maintains the same plastic keys with 1.3mm of travel, which is a bit on the shallow side." I do not see dedicated Home - End - PgUp - PgDn buttons either. It's vital. Look at my chosen desktop keyboard https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61gEPhEChqL._SL1200_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61gEPhEChqL... see something next to the arrows? Matias Ergo Pro , mounted vertically.
- scotu 9y ago
  If you think about the screen real estate as 1 column, 16:9 is too wide to fill it up with said column (a narrower column is easier to read/follow) and at the same time a lot of UI usually occupies the height of the screen that is the scarce resource in this case (compared to width). If you start using 2 columns the advantage of a 4:3 is less apparent in my opinion