8 ms·

Thank god for the separation of powers. It is incredible how many rights the Bush presidency attempted to take away from its citizens all in the name of nationa

by fmora 16y ago

Thank god for the separation of powers. It is incredible how many rights the Bush presidency attempted to take away from its citizens all in the name of national security. The more I read stuff like this the more it seems that we were heading to a totalitarian government. Edit: In case anybody wonders why I threw in Bush's name in there is because the Patriot Act, created during his presidency, greatly extended the NSL powers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter

fmora 16y ago
If you are going to down vote me at least explain why.
- Yzupnick 16y ago
  Maybe it is because you pick on a single president what every president has done. (From all parties.) Did Bush do things that where a violation of rights? Probably, but so did every president including but not limited to Obama, Clinton, Bush (senior), and Reagan. I would venture to guess it is impossible to name a president that did not infringe on the rights of citizens. Second, it was the current government that did this, not Bush.
  - shadowfox 16y ago
    You might want to put in a few examples to bolster your case
  - fmora 16y ago
    Violation of rights seemed to have been more pervasive with the Bush presidency. He may had good intentions but looking at the big picture this is a huge step backwards. The Patriot Act, championed by his presidency, not created by the current administration, greatly increased the NSL power. That is why I single him, he was the main driving force during that time. Congress should have known better. Unfortunately they were probably being lied to, to scare them into submission the same way that they were lied to about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Don't get me wrong, I want to protect this country (USA) with all my might, but we also have to be really careful about not taking steps backwards with regards to civil liberties. Essentially, that letter almost seems to give dictatorial powers to the government, which is what makes it extremely alarming.
  - jeromec 16y ago
    I would venture to guess it is impossible to name a president that did not infringe on the rights of citizens. The degree to which any perceived infringement occurs is what is significant. Bush pushed for and succeeded in suspending habeas corpus, a Constitutional protection by which people can challenge their imprisonment. This was only done twice in history, once by Bush and once by Lincoln at the start of the Civil War. By contrast, President Obama opposed the suspension of habeas corpus since he was a senator.
    - Yzupnick 16y ago
      And yet is continued by the current administration: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us/politics/21obama.text.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us/politics/21obama.text.h... And Obama authorized the assassination of a US citizen; something even Bush never did: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.h...
      - chc 16y ago
        If possible, it's generally better to link to someplace other than the You Must Be A Registered Member Times. A signup form is not very informative.
        Yzupnick 16y ago
        Interesting I'm not a member and get full access. Are you outside the US?
        chc 16y ago
        Nope, I'm in California. IIRC, the first N views are free, then they throw up a registration form for the next week or so.
      - GiraffeNecktie 16y ago
        The speech you point to does not support your point. My reading is that he is trying to cleaning up the toxic legal spill that the previous administration left behind (while trying not to give his Republic critics ammunition). Re. the assassination of a US citizen, that hardly seems notable given that the guy is very actively involved in putting together terrorist attacks. Surely any president would make the same decision.
- Confusion 16y ago
  If you are being downvoted, at least wait a few hours for the score to settle itself, before complaining.
- fhars 16y ago
  Why? Because there seems to be a short attention span downvoting cabal on HN. Any post that is mildly controversial and requires people to think has a moderate to high chance of going to -2 within the first 45 minutes, only to bounce back to more than 10 after a few hours. Don't worry about early votes.
loewenskind 16y ago
>The more I read stuff like this the more it seems that we were heading to a totalitarian government. Well, by Mussolini's definition, the US has been a Fascist country for a long time [1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket. And this is from the 30's.
sigzero 16y ago
Yes and even more incredible that Obama has done nothing at all to change it.
- zargon 16y ago
  Not that incredible really. He inherits all those powers after all.

by fmora 16y ago

fmora 16y ago

If you are going to down vote me at least explain why.

Yzupnick 16y ago
Maybe it is because you pick on a single president what every president has done. (From all parties.) Did Bush do things that where a violation of rights? Probably, but so did every president including but not limited to Obama, Clinton, Bush (senior), and Reagan. I would venture to guess it is impossible to name a president that did not infringe on the rights of citizens. Second, it was the current government that did this, not Bush.
- shadowfox 16y ago
  You might want to put in a few examples to bolster your case
- fmora 16y ago
  Violation of rights seemed to have been more pervasive with the Bush presidency. He may had good intentions but looking at the big picture this is a huge step backwards. The Patriot Act, championed by his presidency, not created by the current administration, greatly increased the NSL power. That is why I single him, he was the main driving force during that time. Congress should have known better. Unfortunately they were probably being lied to, to scare them into submission the same way that they were lied to about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Don't get me wrong, I want to protect this country (USA) with all my might, but we also have to be really careful about not taking steps backwards with regards to civil liberties. Essentially, that letter almost seems to give dictatorial powers to the government, which is what makes it extremely alarming.
- jeromec 16y ago
  I would venture to guess it is impossible to name a president that did not infringe on the rights of citizens. The degree to which any perceived infringement occurs is what is significant. Bush pushed for and succeeded in suspending habeas corpus, a Constitutional protection by which people can challenge their imprisonment. This was only done twice in history, once by Bush and once by Lincoln at the start of the Civil War. By contrast, President Obama opposed the suspension of habeas corpus since he was a senator.
  - Yzupnick 16y ago
    And yet is continued by the current administration: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us/politics/21obama.text.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us/politics/21obama.text.h... And Obama authorized the assassination of a US citizen; something even Bush never did: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.h...
    - chc 16y ago
      If possible, it's generally better to link to someplace other than the You Must Be A Registered Member Times. A signup form is not very informative.
      - Yzupnick 16y ago
        Interesting I'm not a member and get full access. Are you outside the US?
        chc 16y ago
        Nope, I'm in California. IIRC, the first N views are free, then they throw up a registration form for the next week or so.
    - GiraffeNecktie 16y ago
      The speech you point to does not support your point. My reading is that he is trying to cleaning up the toxic legal spill that the previous administration left behind (while trying not to give his Republic critics ammunition). Re. the assassination of a US citizen, that hardly seems notable given that the guy is very actively involved in putting together terrorist attacks. Surely any president would make the same decision.
Confusion 16y ago
If you are being downvoted, at least wait a few hours for the score to settle itself, before complaining.
fhars 16y ago
Why? Because there seems to be a short attention span downvoting cabal on HN. Any post that is mildly controversial and requires people to think has a moderate to high chance of going to -2 within the first 45 minutes, only to bounce back to more than 10 after a few hours. Don't worry about early votes.

loewenskind 16y ago

>The more I read stuff like this the more it seems that we were heading to a totalitarian government. Well, by Mussolini's definition, the US has been a Fascist country for a long time [1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket. And this is from the 30's.

sigzero 16y ago

Yes and even more incredible that Obama has done nothing at all to change it.

zargon 16y ago
Not that incredible really. He inherits all those powers after all.