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Just a hypothetical. Can Google say to all the phone manufacturers that you can only use play store services if you are not going to make any customizations an

Just a hypothetical. Can Google say to all the phone manufacturers that you can only use play store services if you are not going to make any customizations and hence ensuring that the updates are not in the phone manufacturer's hands?

kristofferR 9y ago
You're sort of describing Project Treble, which was just introduced in Android Oreo: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/android-8-0-oreo-thoroughly-reviewed/2/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/android-8-0-oreo-tho...
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Not really, because OEMs are still free to do their own customizations and they are the ones responsible for pushing updates. http://androidbackstage.blogspot.de/2017/08/episode-75-project-treble-for-hal-of-it.html http://androidbackstage.blogspot.de/2017/08/episode-75-proje... Guess how many will push updates, even with Treble enabled devices?
  - problems 9y ago
    Hopefully somewhat more? It's likely a logical first step in a larger push to resolve the update issue on Android devices.
    - dwighttk 9y ago
      right, but how many logical first steps down this road has Google taken in the past...? This seems like the fourth or fifth.
      - problems 9y ago
        Approximately zero - I mean, about the only things they've done is updating of play service stuff and some interesting malware detection techniques. They've (sadly) done almost nothing towards the goal of truly improving the update situation until now.
        kllrnohj 9y ago
        > They've (sadly) done almost nothing towards the goal of truly improving the update situation until now. That's not entirely true. They attempted previously to do this via policy (Android Update Alliance), but that failed because it's too expensive for OEMs to update, which is what Treble is attempting to fix. And in the meantime over the past several years Google had taken a policy of backporting security fixes, which many OEMs are on board with and do roll out security fixes.
        pjmlp 9y ago
        They only push security fixes for flagship devices. This brand new LG is stuck on June patch level.
  - nindalf 9y ago
    More than before. Sure, some manufacturers will prefer to update only their flagships, but that won't be a problem for long. Treble doesn't force OEMs to update - it simply makes updating take less time and resources of the OEM. Now that its cheap, some OEMs have the capability to update their entire stable of devices, incentivizing the other OEMs to follow suit. Of course, it'll take some time for this to materialize, but in the meanwhile, installing ROMs becomes much easier.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      For me that is just plain wishful thinking until Google actually forces OEMs to update, or adopts the Microsoft way and pushes the updates itself. Otherwise this will be yet another failed attempt.
problems 9y ago
What they're doing with Android 8 is making it so that the HAL is separate from the OS and the OS is then upgradable outside of the HAL. This should mostly resolve the issue, assuming they enforce it with the Play agreements.

kristofferR 9y ago

You're sort of describing Project Treble, which was just introduced in Android Oreo: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/android-8-0-oreo-thoroughly-reviewed/2/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/android-8-0-oreo-tho...

pjmlp 9y ago
Not really, because OEMs are still free to do their own customizations and they are the ones responsible for pushing updates. http://androidbackstage.blogspot.de/2017/08/episode-75-project-treble-for-hal-of-it.html http://androidbackstage.blogspot.de/2017/08/episode-75-proje... Guess how many will push updates, even with Treble enabled devices?
- problems 9y ago
  Hopefully somewhat more? It's likely a logical first step in a larger push to resolve the update issue on Android devices.
  - dwighttk 9y ago
    right, but how many logical first steps down this road has Google taken in the past...? This seems like the fourth or fifth.
    - problems 9y ago
      Approximately zero - I mean, about the only things they've done is updating of play service stuff and some interesting malware detection techniques. They've (sadly) done almost nothing towards the goal of truly improving the update situation until now.
      - kllrnohj 9y ago
        > They've (sadly) done almost nothing towards the goal of truly improving the update situation until now. That's not entirely true. They attempted previously to do this via policy (Android Update Alliance), but that failed because it's too expensive for OEMs to update, which is what Treble is attempting to fix. And in the meantime over the past several years Google had taken a policy of backporting security fixes, which many OEMs are on board with and do roll out security fixes.
        pjmlp 9y ago
        They only push security fixes for flagship devices. This brand new LG is stuck on June patch level.
- nindalf 9y ago
  More than before. Sure, some manufacturers will prefer to update only their flagships, but that won't be a problem for long. Treble doesn't force OEMs to update - it simply makes updating take less time and resources of the OEM. Now that its cheap, some OEMs have the capability to update their entire stable of devices, incentivizing the other OEMs to follow suit. Of course, it'll take some time for this to materialize, but in the meanwhile, installing ROMs becomes much easier.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    For me that is just plain wishful thinking until Google actually forces OEMs to update, or adopts the Microsoft way and pushes the updates itself. Otherwise this will be yet another failed attempt.

problems 9y ago

What they're doing with Android 8 is making it so that the HAL is separate from the OS and the OS is then upgradable outside of the HAL. This should mostly resolve the issue, assuming they enforce it with the Play agreements.