4 ms·

This is a story i'm trying to understand. 1. Indian Government wants to emulate something like SSN (in the US) as a single identifier for every citizen in this

by amrrs 9y ago

This is a story i'm trying to understand. 1. Indian Government wants to emulate something like SSN (in the US) as a single identifier for every citizen in this country. 2. This is an easy way for a Government to track the actions of every individual digitally and financially - end of Privacy!

halflings 9y ago
1) SSN is not really a model for a unique identifier for every citizen. Immigrants have SSNs too, and can have different ones if they have done multiple stays in the country. You also can live without an SSN in the US. 2) I mean... the government is entitled to know where your money is coming from if they are asking you for taxes. otherwise, there would be no way to combat tax fraud. This is not a new thing.
- mavendependency 9y ago
  Why not confine this number to banking, then.
  - fgpwd 9y ago
    yes, just read the news that driving licenses have to be linked with aadhar. Phone numbers have to be too. Pretty soon it would be impossible to do anything without aadhar = end of privacy
    - wtmt 9y ago
      With the heavy push for linking it almost everywhere, the government could also use it against individual citizens (dissidents) to cause "civil death" - can't drive, can't use bank accounts, can't study in schools/colleges, can't have a cell phone number, can't have a salaried job (where tax is deducted at source and PAN is expected to be linked), can't get pension...can't even conduct a funeral for a relative (this is the latest move - death certificates require Aadhaar of the dead or that of a close relative). It's truly "one number to rule them all"!!! In the hands of an oppressive government, dissent can be easily stifled and quelled!
- balladeer 9y ago
  But the way Aadhaar usage is being conceived by the Govt it seems to do more with the "tracking" aspect of it than finding trails of money. In fact it has little to do with the "money". For that we already have had PAN numbers (in case of individuals) which are unique and the Govt and the Income Tax department has record of it, so do the banks. Also, the way Aadhaar has been handled by the private contractors (the way the contracts were given are also very questionable), and the way they have gotten unrestricted, unregulated access to it (and it doesn't seem someone has been done to curb this) is really disconcerting as a citizen. Then, there's "Snoopgate". It was hushed as if it never existed.
  - amrrs 9y ago
    You are right. Remember those days when SIM card agents used to sell our data to marketing firms (and use to stalk girls), when those kind of amateurs get to handle Aadhar registration - the result would be data leaks!
- srean 9y ago
  Regarding (2) there already was an idea for that. It's called PAN. Your comment seems a little disingenuous on purpose.
- wtmt 9y ago
  Not sure if you're from or are in India. Aadhaar is for residents in India, not just citizens. Anyone who's been resident in India for 180 days is eligible to get it. Since Aadhaar also has an "introducer system" where one can apply for it without any documentation but with an Aadhaar holder vouching for them, almost anyone in the country can easily get one. The passport office accepts Aadhaar as proof of identity and proof of address. So any resident can get an Aadhaar and then get a passport, effectively getting citizenship!
TeMPOraL 9y ago
Lots of countries have single (or even multiple) identifiers for every one of their citizens. It's not the end of privacy, it's business as usual. Related, I wonder how the UK deals with their citizens not having a national ID?
- Quarrelsome 9y ago
  We ask citizens to verify their identity with either passport, driving license or other forms of id alongside perhaps some evidence of bills that have been delivered to their address. We would have had ids a decade ago if the government didn't try to tie it into an encompassing database that would have allowed the Home Office to perform joins between driving, health and police records at whim. Also that legislation would have explicitly allowed the Home Office to effectively repeal citizenship at a touch of a button as it was also going to be used as the only means of access to healthcare and benefits. If they'd been less greedy with the initial implementation they could have started down this road. If they had a track record of delivering IT projects we might have trusted them.
- eqtn 9y ago
  The main problem they have is the aadhar(the unique id) is linked with fingerprint and retina scans
- dingaling 9y ago
  Most UK government databases associated with identity are keyed by National Insurance Number ( NINO ) which is issued at age 15 years 11 months
ashwinm 9y ago
It died in west long ago why not in third world if it can bring social upliftment?

by amrrs 9y ago

halflings 9y ago

1) SSN is not really a model for a unique identifier for every citizen. Immigrants have SSNs too, and can have different ones if they have done multiple stays in the country. You also can live without an SSN in the US. 2) I mean... the government is entitled to know where your money is coming from if they are asking you for taxes. otherwise, there would be no way to combat tax fraud. This is not a new thing.

mavendependency 9y ago
Why not confine this number to banking, then.
- fgpwd 9y ago
  yes, just read the news that driving licenses have to be linked with aadhar. Phone numbers have to be too. Pretty soon it would be impossible to do anything without aadhar = end of privacy
  - wtmt 9y ago
    With the heavy push for linking it almost everywhere, the government could also use it against individual citizens (dissidents) to cause "civil death" - can't drive, can't use bank accounts, can't study in schools/colleges, can't have a cell phone number, can't have a salaried job (where tax is deducted at source and PAN is expected to be linked), can't get pension...can't even conduct a funeral for a relative (this is the latest move - death certificates require Aadhaar of the dead or that of a close relative). It's truly "one number to rule them all"!!! In the hands of an oppressive government, dissent can be easily stifled and quelled!
balladeer 9y ago
But the way Aadhaar usage is being conceived by the Govt it seems to do more with the "tracking" aspect of it than finding trails of money. In fact it has little to do with the "money". For that we already have had PAN numbers (in case of individuals) which are unique and the Govt and the Income Tax department has record of it, so do the banks. Also, the way Aadhaar has been handled by the private contractors (the way the contracts were given are also very questionable), and the way they have gotten unrestricted, unregulated access to it (and it doesn't seem someone has been done to curb this) is really disconcerting as a citizen. Then, there's "Snoopgate". It was hushed as if it never existed.
- amrrs 9y ago
  You are right. Remember those days when SIM card agents used to sell our data to marketing firms (and use to stalk girls), when those kind of amateurs get to handle Aadhar registration - the result would be data leaks!
srean 9y ago
Regarding (2) there already was an idea for that. It's called PAN. Your comment seems a little disingenuous on purpose.
wtmt 9y ago
Not sure if you're from or are in India. Aadhaar is for residents in India, not just citizens. Anyone who's been resident in India for 180 days is eligible to get it. Since Aadhaar also has an "introducer system" where one can apply for it without any documentation but with an Aadhaar holder vouching for them, almost anyone in the country can easily get one. The passport office accepts Aadhaar as proof of identity and proof of address. So any resident can get an Aadhaar and then get a passport, effectively getting citizenship!

TeMPOraL 9y ago

Lots of countries have single (or even multiple) identifiers for every one of their citizens. It's not the end of privacy, it's business as usual. Related, I wonder how the UK deals with their citizens not having a national ID?

Quarrelsome 9y ago
We ask citizens to verify their identity with either passport, driving license or other forms of id alongside perhaps some evidence of bills that have been delivered to their address. We would have had ids a decade ago if the government didn't try to tie it into an encompassing database that would have allowed the Home Office to perform joins between driving, health and police records at whim. Also that legislation would have explicitly allowed the Home Office to effectively repeal citizenship at a touch of a button as it was also going to be used as the only means of access to healthcare and benefits. If they'd been less greedy with the initial implementation they could have started down this road. If they had a track record of delivering IT projects we might have trusted them.
eqtn 9y ago
The main problem they have is the aadhar(the unique id) is linked with fingerprint and retina scans
dingaling 9y ago
Most UK government databases associated with identity are keyed by National Insurance Number ( NINO ) which is issued at age 15 years 11 months

ashwinm 9y ago

It died in west long ago why not in third world if it can bring social upliftment?